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Kickersin questions

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Dolph, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. Dolph

    Dolph IncGamers Member

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    Kickersin questions

    I've just started a kicksin, and just finished act 1. And now I have a few questions about my build:

    1) Is the last BP absolutly necesary? it's 69 ias needed with a [-30] right? I mean the max is 7/2 right? If I kicked with 8/3 I would still be faster than a zealot.
    2) I am going the Fade route, and because of that I need alot of ias from eq. If I was going with 20% bartucs, 15% Guillames Face, 20% gloves, i still need 14 additional ias, If i socketed my second hand claw (Jade Talon) with a shael, would those 20% ias count?
    3) What is the ias needed for second to last BP?
    4) Is DTail viable without TS. DTail, afterall have more ED % than DTalon, and a decent level DTalon should deal around 2k damage with an elite pair of boots. Will DTail damage be around that damage without fully charged TS?

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    1) My Talonsin finished hell with I believe 20 IAS. Did I have any trouble? None whatsoever. So imo, reaching the last breakpoints isn't a life or death issue. Of course if you're going 8p Baal running, it'll save some time to reach 2 frame followups.

    2) Off-hand IAS does not count. Also note that the base speed you need to work with is the average of both claws, in case of Bartuc + Jade WSM -20 (-10 - 30 = -40/2 = -20). If you want the details, head over to the Assassin forum and follow the sticky to Jrichard's page, it's all there (and lots more).

    3) See Jrichard's kick speed calculator!

    4) No. You'd be better off with a few fire charms while Taloning. Talon does 5-6 kicks for a few k damage and it does it fast. You can't compare that to the ED% of Dragon Tail. Max Tiger with Tail or forget about Tail.
     
  3. Dolph

    Dolph IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the replies.
    Isnt even DTail viable for handling PIs? Still the average damage was pretty high, and with a kick speed of ~8 fpa it should do? Or should I just go with the traps?
     
  4. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    DTail deal no damage whatsoever to PIs. The +% fire damage is based on the physical damage inflicted, which on PIs is 0. To handle PIs you'll need a trap or elemental chargeup. Or get an elemental damage weapon on switch and use Talon. High speed application of 5-6 times the total amount of elemental damage you're packing tends to take care of PIs just fine. I've never used a trap with my Taloner and only used Phoenix on PI boss packs...normal PIs were just kicked down by the elemental damage from my equipment.
     
  5. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    1. Imo, no the last bp isn't necessary. Btw, with a 'tucs and a jade talon, you'd figure the attack speed with a -20 WSM (they're averaged with c/c setups) rather than a -30 WSM. That makes the bps for Dtalon:
    8/3 = 32 ias
    7/3 = 68 ias
    7/2 = 78 ias

    2. Ias on your off-hand claw doesn't help your attack speed with kicks.

    3. see answer to #1

    4. Given Dtalon's multiple kicks, they're gonna do close the the same damage vs a single monster. Dtail's benefit is that it will also do fire damage in a 4 yard radius. That's something to keep in mind with Dtail. It does the majority of it's damage as fire damage. Leech is less with Dtail. It's fire damage is based off of the physical damage it does to the target it releases on. If you release on a physicacl immune, it will do no fire damage. Dtalon, on the other hand, deals all of it's damage as physical. Dtail is viable without TS, but you'll need to have a nice number of +skills in the build. I'd want at least level 32-35 Dtail. You'll also need to invest pretty heavily into strength. I'm talking final str at level 85 of 350+ counting str bonuses from equipment and to tell the truth, I'd want to be at 400+. A final note on Dtail, it takes a speed penalty which Dtalon doesn't have. Figure your Dtail speed with an additional 40 added to the WSM. The trade-off for the high damage TS/Dtail is capable of is the immunity problems and the speed issue. Given what you trade to use Dtail, reducing your damage by not using TS isn't something i'd recommend even though i do build Dtailers with only 1 pt invested in TS. I use +skills to bring that one pt up to level 16 or 17.

    jrichard

    edit: oops, got interrupted while i was typing this, didn't know Zarhrezz had already covered the answers. :)
     
  6. Dolph

    Dolph IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the replies Zarhrezz and JRichard, I think I will be able to pull this thing of. Maybe I'll use Jade Talon as main hand weapon and socket that with shael, since a Jade Talon isnt as valuable as a [barg]200/9[/brag] bartúc's, oh well.

    One other thing.
    ias jewel Guillames+Shael Jade Talon+Dracul's
    or
    Shael Jade Talon+Laying of Hands+Guillames with other socket.
    for the 8/3 that is.
    Thanks again.
     
  7. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    I'd go for the dracul's. The lifetap will fire constantly with Dtalon and will take away your life leech worries.

    jrichard
     

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