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Kick/WW Sin?

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by IsNOTShevlock, Mar 31, 2004.

  1. IsNOTShevlock

    IsNOTShevlock IncGamers Member

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    Kick/WW Sin?

    For my WWsin in the making, I was thinking about the following skill placement:
    20 claw mast
    20 venom (which gets me 1 in fade and bos)
    ~13 in weapon block (whatever it is to get 26 after equipment)
    1 in mb, blade shield, shadow master and their preqs
    1 in dflight

    I figure I'll be using BoS most of the time, and my gear would get me max resists without fade. Now, my question is this: should I be getting max Dtalon for casters, or is WW enough? Is there any situation where dtalon is superior to WW? If I don't max dtalon, what should I be doing with the spare points? Max Dflight? Max fade (again, I like bos much more, so I might put just enough to get max dr vs melee)? Max shadow master as a tank? Max mb as a finishing blow? Max CoS for the defensive boost and to hit more (how effective is this anyway?)

    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. C-Beat

    C-Beat IncGamers Member

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    I got a pvp sin with ww, 5 kicks Dtalon, maxed Dflight and maxed claw mastery. I've allways liked DTalon and i can still find situations where i prefer talon over ww, versus some casters for example.

    A ww/kick build is very expensive though, and quite hard to make. I had to give up c/c for c/s to get maxed mastery without sacrificing several hundreds of life...

    C-Beat
     
  3. IsNOTShevlock

    IsNOTShevlock IncGamers Member

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    What kind of sacrifices? Can you show me your reasoning for going c/s?
     
  4. FatassWilly

    FatassWilly IncGamers Member

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    C-Beat, what are some situations for Dtalon? I really cannot find any situations in which I would prefer it over whirlwind, I am currently planning on remaking my assassin and maxing CM, Venom, Blade Shield, and Dragon Flight, with the remaining points going into either Weapon Block or Shadow Master. The reason for maxing Flight and Shield are because against most fast casting teleporters, I only have time to get one Flight in before they teleport away, and the Blade Shield helps a lot in damaging them (I'm maxing it for long duration, it has a pitiful duration at low levels)
     
  5. Zero-unit

    Zero-unit IncGamers Member

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    I'de certainly find Talon with WW very futile. Why use it over WW? Doesn't make sense to me, ww is uninteruptable and to me does more damage.

    [email protected]~
     
  6. IsNOTShevlock

    IsNOTShevlock IncGamers Member

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    OK, if I don't max dtalon, what should I max in lieu of it?
     
  7. Zero-unit

    Zero-unit IncGamers Member

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    I like to max Blade Shield it's like an extra attack along with your own.

    [email protected]~
     
  8. C-Beat

    C-Beat IncGamers Member

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    Dont max blade shield. It's not really a good pvp skill.

    I had to give up 2 things in my equipment so that i could use Dtalon at max speed and still have decent life.

    First of all i had to go c/s so i could get maxed pdr (storm). Second of all i had to give up nats armor for enigma so my life wouldnt suffer too much from my high dex.

    I have found a few sitations where i prefer DTalon over ww. One of them being versus casters. Since DTalon hits so fast it makes it harder for them to escape me. If i can land a DTalon after my DFlight they're as good as dead.

    DTalon is also good to use when you run low on mana, which you will quite often. It's also a very fun skill! It also does pretty well versus builds that uses a simple hit attack...

    C-Beat
     
  9. IsNOTShevlock

    IsNOTShevlock IncGamers Member

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    Hm, but if I maxed Dflight instead of Dtalon, would I really need the stunning effect of Dtalon, seeing how thats the only situation that you showed? If the dflight did enough damage, maybe I wouldn't need the Dtalon?

    Also, what lvl of BoS + chaos suwayyah + fury suwayyah/malice runic would net me a 7/2 kick? I'm not aware of the speed calculator for this skill.
     
  10. Groovehawg

    Groovehawg IncGamers Member

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    I believe you can still reach the kick breakpoints for talon while using fade if you use runic talons in your chaos and fury/malice and have 20ias from gear (i.e. highlords). This would allow you to get max/close to max DR and still be able to go claw/claw. I'm waiting on getting a superior runic to make my chaos outta, but even with my wrist sword chaos/runic malice I kick pretty damn fast.

    My biggest problem with this build is it's hard on the skill points. Maxing talon/mastery/fade/venom/weapon block and still having points for other needed skills like mb/traps for stun is pretty tough. Plus, I'm skipping the shadow charms for max/ar/life and life/mana grands.

    The strength boost from enigma has me wearing CoA and Steelrends, so I may drop venom on a rebuild and focus on +enhanced damage. More and more folks seem to be maxin their poison resists anyway.

    It's a fun build and I've had more success with it than my previous venom-heavy pure ww'r.
     
  11. C-Beat

    C-Beat IncGamers Member

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    yes, runic talon would allow me to get maxed kick speed, however i could not afford to trade for seperate runes at that moment, and i prefered the +2skills and resists from maras. However, that change would not let me get maxed pdr with c/c. Storm was my only option to get maxed pdr without wearing a shaft.

    Not alot of people realize that venom deals alot of dmg even when people have maxed resists...even if my opponent has 85% poison resists, a single hit will still deal 125 dmg. If the opponent has 75% resists, venom will deal over 200 dmg. And that is instant dmg after pvp penalty!

    if i can land several DTalons you can probably calculate how much that is...my poison is up to 5k per second atm.

    C-Beat
     
  12. Groovehawg

    Groovehawg IncGamers Member

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    That can't possibly be all poison damage, can it? That's, what, 4800ish display damage (math ain't my strong suit, so I could be wrong there)...and without bramble?

    Just curious as to what level venom you're casting, there.

    Damn nice, tho.
     
  13. Shadoway

    Shadoway IncGamers Member

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    I would also like to know that. What level of venom?

    Also, mara's ammy is a poor choice, use highlord instead. With maxed fade, you don't need to worry about resist. Inventory got to be all shadow charms, they add to fade, WB, venom, CM, master, MB. IMO, no other charm can be more efficient.
     
  14. C-Beat

    C-Beat IncGamers Member

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    hm...i made a few mistakes in my last post. I took for granted that every hit landed and the numbers i mentioned were over each second, not each hit. sorry about that.

    The correct numbers would be this:
    85% poison res => 52 dmg dealt each hit after pvp penalty and poison resists
    75% poison res => 87 dmg dealt each hit after penalties.

    my venom slvl is something like 46 or so...can remember exatcly. if each hit land it's the same as 5.2k dmg per second.

    I wanted to have a shield on my char for 75% block versus melee chars and 60% wb versus elemental chars. Since i would allready have max pdr without fade i decided to use bos instead as it would give me more than the resists from fade. Maras was then the best option as i could use the resists and the +1skill adds alot to all my skills and saves me 5ish skill points.

    C-Beat
     

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