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Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread (:

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by triggerfinger, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. triggerfinger

    triggerfinger IncGamers Member

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    Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    PART 1

    My ubering gear;

    i see that in this thread all the people mention for cheap prices u can do uber tristram.

    i wanted to tell that, ut is not easy with my gear.
    it's completable by dying lots of time.. but it's not "doing uber run" if you die 4-5 times trying.
    And i strongly believe that i'm not a bad player :)

    as the true nature of crushing blow, it's easy to drop Uber's health to %5-10.. but than.. it takes like forever to kill one of them.

    if my kick's damage is low, i'd be happy to hear some of you guy's damage. so i can understand where i'm doing it wrong.



    PART 2

    When i started working on this build. i was advised to go for CoH and Stormshield. i know why this two items are awesome. but even with my +69 strength Enigma, my damage is 880-1424 without auras.

    but when i put on Fortitude and Phoenix, it goes to 1253-2123. damage difference is so much that it is almost 2/3. and that much difference is should be really really important for kicker.

    anyway, i'd like to learn about "Coh SS" vs "Forti Phoenix". have a nice day :)

    Cheers :) Trigger
     
  2. BAMFSpecialOps

    BAMFSpecialOps IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Coh gives skills/str/dr/most importantly res for when doing ubers
    SS gives dr/res and can get max block with it pretty easily

    Fort gives damage, but IIRC your base kick damage will be low enough it wont really matter, Phoenix gives redemption which will keep you alive, but again the massive ED aint great and almost no block.

    Not to mention the redemption takes away bodies for death sentry in regular pvm play.

    Are your boots up'd?
     
  3. triggerfinger

    triggerfinger IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    +skills and strength is not that important if they can't make me give as much damage as Fortitude. In both items, res and dr are the valueable parts. res can be manageable with charms. Only point i'm not certain about is damage reduce. which is useless when life tap is on. but i'll use this items in PvM also. So it may be a problem with normal monsters.

    So having even 1253-2123 damage will not change a thing you say ? i haven't tried it. so if it won't change a thing, there 's already no point for me to wonder about it :)

    And you are right again about redemption in PVM, thanks. But will it matter in Uber tristram ? will i need to block there? will i use death sentry to explode something ?

    And yes my boots are upped. (damage 84-something)


     
  4. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    chasing straight physical damage with a kicker just flat-out doesn't work. you're better off chasing extra proc effects (static charge and crushing blow being the most useful).

    Phoenix lacks any +% block mods, so the dex needed for max block is horrific. you also have the issue of cast-delay every time the firestorm procs off.

    CoH (or Treachery/Smoke/Viper/Gladiators Bane/Duress)/SS is a much better all round option.

    remember, your main killing skill is Death Sentry. not kicks. kicks just give you that first corpse quickly so the DS howitzer can get cranking.

    Phoenix is nerfing your best attack skill.

    not a good move.



     
  5. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Like Meph said, you don't rely on kick damage so much as static field and cb.
    Stormlash and SS is my favorite setup, and I used to do my runs with a LW/SS.
    You'll want more than stacked lite res, remember, he doesn't just have lite attacks, and you're also getting hit by all the minions and whatever they're shooting at you.

    I typically see two things wrong with kickers having trouble

    Low Life
    Poor resists

    You'll want the cta/spirit switch to help boost hp, if you're under 1500hp goin in, you're risk of death is huge, and that's just organ running.

    Make sure nothing cancels your lifetap (ie amp, decrepify etc)

    You don't need 75% block, but I would recommend a minimum of 50%.

    I would setup gear without torch so you can pick it up immediately as opposed to needing to switch and send in a mule. Nothing is more frustrating than getting through a run only to lose the torch because you can't get back in.
     
  6. triggerfinger

    triggerfinger IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Ok i understood about Forti/Phoenix. That ws just for me to find a way to solo ubers..
    if i go back to real problem: to find the reason :

    With my +69 strenght enigma, stats are :

    strenght: 275
    dexterity: 230
    vitality: 302
    energy: 72

    so life : 1283
    with my bo: 2025

    as far as i know to max the block, dex should be around 200+.

    is something wrong here ?

    i've still don't know the answer;
    why i can't do uber runs with this gear:


     
  7. CrushingBlow

    CrushingBlow IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Going to need more info. Your life is definitely on the low side.

    Which Uber is killing you, and which ones are you having a hard time killing.

    Also how do you pull them? Do you fight them one at a time, etc...
     
  8. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    If you're dying that often with that gear, you probably need to re-evaluate that belief. People have done it with low runewords and a few uniques. I myself have done runs with dual bartucs.

    You can't do ubers with a kicker like you can a smiter - they don't miss. You can't just take on all 3 at the same time and expect to handle it smoothly.

    Your life is on the low side, but its over 1500, which is essential.

    You seemed to miss that whole thing about POOR RESISTS I mentioned.

    I never ran my kicker with an anni and torch, as her inventory was filled with random charms for health and res except for the 2 slots to pick up a torch.

    Enigma is fine for general use, but you're lacking resists. I tried to hint that lite damage is not the only thing to worry about, something you didn't quite catch. Coh was my usual armor in ubertrist for the resists, using a kiras if needbe. Meph's aura is -125% res, so with the -100% from hell, you effectively need 300% res to hit 75% once the aura hits. Fade only goes so far.

    Your gear shouldn't be the problem aside from the armor, but your lacking res would likely be the primary culprit. If your AR is under 15k, I would see that as a problem too, being that they're level 110, and you're level ?

    You also haven't mentioned your skill choices.


     
  9. triggerfinger

    triggerfinger IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Before reading whole part, please read bold part :) that might be the real problem..

    How much life should be considered as normal? maybe i gave too much points to dexterity ?

    Mephisto :) Killing him while he and his minions are shooting at me.. it's hard.
    and yes i pull them one by one.

    I didn't try soloing after i created my Cta, but you're saying it should be much more easier with these items, even worse ones.

    Maybe my strategy is wrong ? should i kick minions and explode them? instead of focusing on Mephisto ?

    ^^ I'm so sorry about forgetting to mention about my armor in item list.
    i use Enigma in PvM, when i'm going for ubers,, i wear Smoke.
    So my resist are maxed, and in addition to it, i have extra 80 light resist for Meph's aura. (i thought his aura was %80, i need to stack up more if its %125, THIS may be the main problem i guess)(He also uses blizzard too of course but he kills with lightning attacks most of the time)


    It's 15092. i also use demon limb to increase it if i remember..

    with cta's boost and all items:

    dragon talon 32
    burst of speed 13
    venom 13
    cloak of shadows 12
    death/lightning/charged bolt 31
    shock web 27
    fire blast 12


     
  10. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    This is one of the problems indeed, only not for the lightning resist. Mephi also has a cold attack iirc, and his minion spawn definately has other elemental damage. So while you took care of lightning resist, your other resists when under mephi's aura are all 0 or negative.

    Solutions to this:

    more resists:

    - treachery prebuff: you use the threachery armour to get extra resists form it's CTC fade
    - investing sp in fade: same idea

    This way you can't use BoS though...


    Keep the minions busy:

    Cast Shadow in between them, use WoF or LS to put them into hit recovery,... Literally anything you can do to reduce their rate of fire is good :)


    That's true for allmost any char really. The trick is not to kill the ubers faster (10% of their hitpoints is still a lot), it's making your char sturdier so it can survive for longer. Which doens't mean more phys damage is bad, it isn't in the least (as it lets you leech more). But leeching doesn't help if big elemental attacks hit you at 100% efficiency...

    So in conclusion, get your resists up (not just lightning) by any means and you'll be sturdy enough to survive that last 10% life.
     
  11. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Yeah, if you're having problems tanking, its typically a matter of life/resists or both. Don't be afraid to carry rejuvs - there will be times where lifetap takes forever to cast and you need to buy some time since the leech alone won't be enough.

    I actually varied who I targeted first, but definitely made it a point to prevent them from joining up as much as possible.

    You actually shouldn't have to bother with the minions much at all except to clear path to meph if too many get in the way. That's why having the stacked resists is so important, because it minimizes the damage all them mages be throwin at ya.

    If anything, I found baal and all the mana burning to be the most irritating to deal with if I didn't separate him from his spectres. Once you cover resists for meph, he should be cake.
     
  12. Arikados

    Arikados IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    303. Just finished building my doom kicker with a spirit shield. She's a beast though...

    As for UT; Fade is probably a very good bet to your survival for the huge boost to res as well as covering your hole in your pdr for my next suggestion. Ditch the soe and leech ring and get a Tgods and a Dwarf star. Now the only minion that should be able to hurt you is the poison one. Drink an antidote potion.

    If you can, drop the maras and get your hands on a Metalgrid. You could probably trade your 26 maras for a nice one with 30+ res easily. Adding 4xx AR at level 32 dtalon easily boosts you up to 20K+ AR and the res should flesh out your battles with meph.


     
  13. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    303 sounds like the Spirit shield you're using, not the SS he's using.
     
  14. Arikados

    Arikados IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Thats for the pheonix he wanted to use. Still haven't calculated SS's req dex.
     
  15. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    That's enough reason alone not to go phoenix - 303 points? Gonna be hurting on life especially - and redemption does no good if you don't survive a few big hits in succession.

    @OP remember that the LCS isn't an exact science - keep in mind that damage is also per kick. Damage is all fine and dandy, but if you can't live to dish it out than it's pointless.
     
  16. Arikados

    Arikados IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    My kicker with spirit has 303 dex and 1.3k life w/o bo, so you're not hurting crazy on life. Though I've specialized a lot of my gear for it.
     
  17. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Even that much dex can get high life with the right charm set, but you get into some expensive charms people don't normally use for a char like this.
     
  18. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Yeah exactly - if you're going to start spending that heavily on a runner, you might as well go smiter.
     
  19. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    the block speed is the real problem with spirit
     
  20. Arikados

    Arikados IncGamers Member

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    Re: Kick/trapsin.. Where am i doing it wrong thread :)

    Its only one BP faster to use SS. From my experience, being able to block one 25th of a second faster (if i have my frames-speed right, which i'm pretty sure i do), doesnt help much unless you're going head to head with a zealer, another kicker, or a ww char.
     

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