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Kevorkian released from prison

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by llad12, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. pip boy

    pip boy Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well thats exactly why i think its irrelevent.

    i.e we should ban all knives as they can be misused, sorry but youll have to use your hands.

    That something can be misused, or that it "could" lead onto another subject thats not under discussion, well i dont see how its a "real" counter argument. pick ANY subject, and you can attribute the slippery slope arguement against it it, thats how i find it irrelevent.


    Yes, people are different, but if its causing enough pain that they want to end it, exactly why is that not enough of a definition of "agonizing pain"?

    If i stab someone and it hurts them, thats pain. If i stab someone on hard painkillers, it dosnt hurt them.

    Whats the difference?

    The individuals perception, if it hurts them, it hurts them. They could of course lie, but then if it isnt enough pain to make them want to die, exactly what would the motivation be?

    People are moved by different things, i dont understand why the term "suffering needlessly" isnt compelling, you do.

    Theres not really much to discuss about it


    I am uncompelled on your alternative means.

    Maybe someone dosnt want to live in a drug induced coma for the last few days, i see no medical or ethical reason to keep them going.



     
  2. PFSS

    PFSS Diabloii.Net Member

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    The whole point os assisted suicide is that the only people who need it are those who are incapeable of committing it themselves - often due to physical paralysis.

    People who can manage to pull a trigger themselves or make it down to the stores to buy too much cough syrup to have with some cognac do not need assisted suicide - a guy who needs someone to pour the cough medicine for him however does need it if he wishes to end his life.


     
  3. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well, that's the beauty of a democratic system. I can feel one way. You can feel another. We bring it up for vote and a decision is made based on what the majority wants (for the most part).

    My vote, at least for the time being, is against assisted suicide.

    And to get back to the original person that sparked the debate (Kervorkian) - I think the man brought a debate to light but feel his methods were very unethical and I'm glad he went to prison for them.

    A person in a drug induced coma feels no pain. What would it really matter if they were alive a few more days or a few less? Choice? Well, I say leave the medical professionals out of it.
     
  4. TakeMyCrabs

    TakeMyCrabs Diabloii.Net Member

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    Like I said, some people do not tolerate the side effects of opiates very well at all. Then what?

    If a person wants it, why not do it? I'm pretty extreme, I'd go as far as saying that if you want to end your life for ANY reason, you should be able to do so. And if you can't physically do it yourself, you should be able to get someone to do it for you legally.

    Why do you not allow people to do what they want if it only effects them and no one else? What right do you have to impose your will on them?? That's extremely arrogant.


    Devil's Advocate: Life insurance. Does it still pay off with assisted suicide?
     
  5. Star Dust

    Star Dust Diabloii.Net Member

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    What reason have you for not granting them what they want?



     
  6. WildBerry

    WildBerry Diabloii.Net Member

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    You picked the wrong slippery slope to laugh at.



     
  7. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    A person wanting to have control over their own life is the most compelling reason there is. If I said "Anyone who can't offer me a reason for living that I find compelling should be forced to die." you would probably object, and for good reason, and yet you push that exact arrogance on others.

    And democracy will only take you so far. You see, there are these things called "rights", and they come to play in decisions of this nature . . .

    EDIT:

    And I find the slippery slope argument hilarious.

    "We can't do this! Because if we take a core tenet of this and turn it on it's head, we might get something we don't like!"

    "We can't allow people to trade! If we legalize trade, what's to stop us from legalizing theft??"

    "We can't allow people to have sex! If we legalize sex, what's to stop us from legalizing rape??"

    "We can't allow consensual suicide! If we legalize suicide, what's to stop us from legalizing homicide??"



     
  8. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Double post!
     
  9. Dondrei

    Dondrei Diabloii.Net Member

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    I think the potential for abuse is pretty small.

    In this case it's fairly accurate though.



     
  10. zodiac66

    zodiac66 Diabloii.Net Member

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    I would venture to guess no. Suicide is suicide..assisted or not.



     
  11. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris Diabloii.Net Member

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    I have nothing against people wanting to end their own lives. People should have a right to do that should they chose. I just don't think it should be assisted.

    If you want to die... do it. My vote is that doctors don't assist in the process.

    And I agree with Zodi... I believe insurance companies would not pay out, nor would they be expected to. Suicide (assisted or not) is the unnatural termination of life.

    I also agree Dondrei... the potential for abuse is probably pretty small, but it's there none-the-less.
     
  12. Star Dust

    Star Dust Diabloii.Net Member

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    Any reason why in spite of the benefits of assistance?



     
  13. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris Diabloii.Net Member

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    I gave some solid reasons earlier in the post. Plain and simple... I don't believe people should have a hand in ultimately determining or assisting in the death of others. This applies across many issues, but at the moment... assisted suicide.
     
  14. WildBerry

    WildBerry Diabloii.Net Member

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    Then surely you allow me to laugh at the people who say that since my country registers guns, it will eventually and unavoidably end up in totalitarism?

    I haven't given the slippery slope argument very much weight; I'm just wondering that there are quite few posters that tenaciously use it a different sphere of interest but refuse to imagine one in this case.

    And for the realisation of his wishes, you'd be prepared to have him relinquish this control to another person. I'm not following you, but I guess I don't need to.



     
  15. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Yes, but for a different reason.
    In this case, I was trying to make the point that there is no slope. The slippery slope argument involves the phrase "If we follow that logic, ______ would also be okay too."

    I fail to see the logical, slippery slope connection between people killing themselves (or having another do it with their proper consent) and the government legalizing the killing of people against their will. That is, the statement "People should have the right to do with their own life as they wish" in no way leads to "People should have the right to do with others' lives as they wish.". One doesn't logically flow into the other.
    You can legally allow other people to act on your behalf in other situations (with the proper channels followed) so I fail to see why this is a problem.



     
  16. WildBerry

    WildBerry Diabloii.Net Member

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    I assumed you thought in Sartrean fashion that some decisions can be only made by people themselves. I guess I've had it figured wrong then. Not to make me think worse of you, just a misconception on my part.

    From your adamant stance, I take it you also foresee no problems in the application and certificating the real-deal pleas? Obviously, people unable to communicate but in severe pain could not in your opinion be privy to this (think the guy in the video of Metallica's One before he managed to get someone listen to his tapping).



     
  17. Star Dust

    Star Dust Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yes, you've said that many a time, but my question is WHY? I'm just wondering if there's a reason why you believe that.

    By the way, I noticed that you still think the assistant has a hand in determining anything other than a yes/no decision to participate according to the person's wishes. This is not true, and may be clouding your thoughts on the subject.



     
  18. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris Diabloii.Net Member

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    You quoted my reason.
    Note I say determining or assisting. Determination would come into play in a case of euthenasia. Assisting comes into play in the current debate - and the issues surrounding Kervorkian. The "why" of it is contained in that very sentence I re-quoted.

    And no, I don't think a medical professional plays a role in determination. Determination is irrelevant to my stance. Participation in the act is.

    I still remain uncompelled.
     
  19. buttershug

    buttershug Diabloii.Net Member

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    Don't let theory vs reality get your way.
    Does anyone know how may assisted suicides there are in the Netherlands? AFAIK it's legal there.



     
  20. TakeMyCrabs

    TakeMyCrabs Diabloii.Net Member

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    How do you feel about allowing someone to help you carry the groceries (assuming both parties agree?) How is this different?


     

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