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Kevorkian released from prison

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by llad12, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't have the right to end their own lives should they make that decision. I'm against other people assisting them. Hence... assisted suicide.

    If a person is too ill to take their own life (via pills or other means), then they are very most likely too ill to legally consent to euthenasia as it is.

    Simply put, I don't believe that people should have the right to determine life or death of other people except under very rare circumstances.

    So for those of you that support assisted suicide. Give me a very compelling reason why it should be allowed - other than to say that a person simply doesn't want to live anymore or that they are in incredible pain. I've already stated that the pain can be easily managed with terminally ill patients in the vast majority of cases (I'm willing to concede that there may be some exceptions to this, but the exceptions are so minimal it's almost not worth mentioning).

    I simply don't think that the medical profession should have any role in helping people end their own lives... not in any way, shape, or form.
     
  2. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    It works like this.

    Money, time and resources it takes to start up and maintain a euthanasia program.

    VS

    The 2 people every year that actualy seriously needs it.

    We could instead SAVE the lives of some of the thousands of people who die every year because there is no money for thier medication and operations.

    There are many, many more important things than a program to help kill the very few people that are unable to kill themselves but willing to die.

    Im glad the tax payers money arent in your hands because you seem to like the idea of spending as much money as possible on the most irrelevant projects possible in order to not even save peoples lives! just "finish off" microscopic numbers of them.


    Jesus ****ing christ.

    Assisted suicide...

    Laughable...

    Whats next?

    How about 100 billion dollars a year into solid gold wheelchairs for disabled people?

    Im sure one or two of them would get a morale boost out of a really bling bling chair.


    How about free safety check and repair of all cars in the country instead. It would cost money but atleast that would save a ton of people.



     
  3. Star Dust

    Star Dust Diabloii.Net Member

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    Er, I was under the impression that one determines for themself whether they live or die, and the assistant merely helps their wish come true if they choose death.



     
  4. Gertlex

    Gertlex Banned

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    Likewise.

    I don't care who does the assisting. (Were there of course a properly documented system as Johnny makes the case of need for) The person who does the assisting is irrelevant and could/should remain anonymous for all I care. If you're going to have moral problems with yourself after doing this sort of thing, then someone else can be the assistant. Do it right the first time and the person dies a merciful death.



     
  5. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris Diabloii.Net Member

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    The issue though isn't about dying a "merciful" or "dignified" death. The issue is with a medical professional assisting in the termination of another person's life - which I am against on a few very key grounds: 1. Ethical. 2. Moral (in a non-religious sense).

    The issue with me isn't about determination, but of the assisting process.

    And a point of clarification about the term "euthenasia". This term shouldn't be used synonimously with assisted suicide as euthenasia is about terminating another persons life... but doesn't necessarily involve consent to do so. I can't imagine hardly any rational thinking person who would honestly advocate euthenasia.
     
  6. Gertlex

    Gertlex Banned

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    You're the one that made it an issue about medical professionals.:rolleyes:

    I do agree that AS is contradictory to their profession though. I certainly am not demanding that medical professionals do the assisting.

    We've got three issues in this thread, at least.
    • Can one determine when to end one's own life
    • Can a feasible system for standardizing/legitimizing AS be done
    • Is it ok to assist someone (hopefully we're limiting ourselves to mentally stable people here... no depression, etc.) who is determined to end their life
    And here we all are arguing our own one of the three and blowing off the rest as not being "the" question, or even as just irrelevant... Or so it seems to me:scratch:

    Nothing new for me there. Is euthanasia a term that's applied strictly to humans, though? What about animals?

    Edit: Heh... supporters of euthanasia... Nyax comes to mind.



     
  7. buttershug

    buttershug Diabloii.Net Member

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    Theory vs. Reality.
    My understanding is that where euthanasia is legal it doesn't always go according to theory.
    Just how many people do you think there are that are capable of deciding for themselves but aren't able to do it?



     
  8. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris Diabloii.Net Member

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    While euthanasia does specifically refer to the act of a mercy killing, I wanted to distinguish the term as non synonymous with assisted suicide for the reason listed. The term euthanasia was used earlier in the thread and it's possible not everyone understand that the term encompasses non consent "mercy killing" as well.. hence why the pro-assisted suicide camp uses the term they do.

    Anyhow, euthanasia raises an entirely huge can of worms.
     
  9. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    I'm all for it. :wave: A person's life is to do what they will with it. Including end it.
     
  10. Stan

    Stan Diabloii.Net Member

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    holy crap, if you want to put money into this issue, then take account the cost, trouble, and pain (on both sides) of keeping someone alive on pills and medication just so they can live a slow, painful life as a vegetable knowing very well the pills and money they take up is used to prolong their pain

    i'm for assisted suicide. Not for random people, but for people that know they are going to die, and want to.
     
  11. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    You mean except for diseases that effect the body and not the mind?

    There aren't many of those, I'm sure.
    Because they want to die.

    That's really all there is to it.



     
  12. FrankWest

    FrankWest Diabloii.Net Member

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    Exactly.

    First, do no harm.

    Someone is terminally ill. They no longer wish to live. They beg you to help them die. I'd love to hear your reasoning on why pumping them full of drugs and shoving tubes inside of them to keep them alive despite their suffering and their explicit wish to die peacefully with what dignity they have left isn't torture.



     
  13. Dondrei

    Dondrei Diabloii.Net Member

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    As long as it's properly regulated I don't see the problem.

    What about themselves? That's where the "suicide" part comes in. Otherwise it'd be assisted homicide.

    How do you prove someone's will is real?

    The savings would outweigh the costs. Not that many would be contended, and keeping people alive on machines for years ain't cheap you know.



     
  14. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Ooooh, Rusalka avatar.

    And you probably thought I wouldn't notice. ^_^



     
  15. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy Diabloii.Net Member

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    Assisted suicide makes no sense to me. First, the doctor patient relationship is one in which the doctor generally holds the power because he is the one who is medically knowledgeable. There is no reason that same person should have the power to end your life. It is socially irresponsible to give him such power.

    It's against the rules for a doctor to have sex with their patients because it's a position of power, but it's ok for the doctor to kill their patients? I'd like an explanation on that one.
     
  16. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Who said it has to be a doctor that does it? If I'm physically unable to end my own life, just about anybody can help me die better than I can.



     
  17. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy Diabloii.Net Member

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    Heh, finally! "He was asking for it" really will be a defense to murder.
     
  18. Dondrei

    Dondrei Diabloii.Net Member

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    By the way everyone, watch Johnny Got His Gun.

    But it is okay to give them the power to force them to keep living?

    Well, at least you got to see it before I got asked to change it. :cry:



     
  19. llad12

    llad12 Diabloii.Net Member

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    If a terminally ill patient, in their last stages, believes that suicide is better than going on, how can we justify denying them this final decision?

    There is life ... and then there is a quality of life.

    I sometimes believe that we treat our animals with better respect than we do ourselves.


    Just my two cents
     
  20. pip boy

    pip boy Diabloii.Net Member

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    Which you have decided will cost squillions, apart from the fact i disagree with that, a simple solution is to make it private healthcare only, and as pointed out, keeping them alive is hugely expensive.

    Oh wait, but then your argument falls to pieces......



     

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