John Kerry promises to raise taxes

MatMan

Diabloii.Net Member
John Kerry promises to raise taxes

From the Associated Press:

John Kerry says he'll campaign to repeal President Bush's tax cuts, raise the minimum wage and make health care more available. <snip rest of story regarding Super Tuesday results>

That's wonderful. Just as we're out of recession, he pledges to raise costs for small businesses, then promises to take more money from them while he's at it. I seem to remember this strategy working very poorly for Walter Mondale back in 1984. Bush will win in a landslide.
 

Herald of Doom

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm not 100% sure, but about 3 hours ago I read that those tax cuts actually cost more money instead. I can't explain how, it was to economical for me (stupid fast-talking native speakers, have mercy !). Kerry seems a better candidate than Bush in general, tax cuts arent the answer to everything :) The [email protected] Larry King seemed to agree that Kerry is a lot more intelligent and knows more of all the important issues than Bush does, but Kerry is to cocky and the American people don't like that ^_^

EDIT: Oh yeah, higher minimum wage is good for the economy. More money to spend etc, I think I remember that from Economics classes a while back :teeth:
 

Damascus

Diabloii.Net Member
Why does everyone automatcally assume taxes = bad? I have no problem paying higher taxes as long as they do something with it.
 

maccool

Diabloii.Net Member
And why weren't you bitching when Reagan and Bush raised taxes?

Although repeal and raise both start with 'r', that's where the similarities end. Last I checked, Kerry only wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and the bloated corporations. Interesting how you fail to mention that Kerry has actually proposed a middle class tax cut. Facts always get in the way.

Oh well, spin on; don't bother to do any research or think for yourself. It does tend to make voting painful.

Edit: Damascus, taxes = bad because the public was told to think that way.
 

advil

Diabloii.Net Member
MatMan said:
Bush will win in a landslide.
i doubt that. barring an implosion by kerry, this one'll probably be as close as bush v gore in 2000. the country's even more polarized than it was then, in case you haven't noticed. :)

edit: the national bureau of economic research claims the recession started in march 2001 and ended in november 2001, which gives the texas souffle about 3yrs of post-recession record to work with. the US has lost almost as many jobs since nov 01 as it did from march to nov of that year...

*scratches head*
 

advil

Diabloii.Net Member
huh, in one of the NBER press releases from mid 03, they say this:

"The committee decided that following NBER procedures, a renewed decline in activity would be identified as a new recession rather than a continuation of the 2001 downturn."

www.nber.org

gogo bush economy
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Herald of Doom said:
EDIT: Oh yeah, higher minimum wage is good for the economy. More money to spend etc, I think I remember that from Economics classes a while back :teeth:
I can't recall a signle economics professor or teacher ever saying minimum wage is good for the economy. All it does is promote inflation. Yes, people have more money to spend. But companies have to pay their workers more, so they raise the price. Now people who make that extra quarter an hour have to pay that much more for the stuff they want to buy. Who makes more money? No one.
 

thejdawg2

Diabloii.Net Member
AeroJonesy said:
I can't recall a signle economics professor or teacher ever saying minimum wage is good for the economy. All it does is promote inflation. Yes, people have more money to spend. But companies have to pay their workers more, so they raise the price. Now people who make that extra quarter an hour have to pay that much more for the stuff they want to buy. Who makes more money? No one.
Prices have gone up, and will continue to go up, regardless of what the minimum wage is.
 

Stark_

Diabloii.Net Member
Minimum wage is bad because it's a kind of price floor. Price floors and ceilings disrupt the natural flow of a market economy, which usually results in a less efficient economy and ends up hurting the poorer people the most. Ironic.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
thejdawg2 said:
Prices have gone up, and will continue to go up, regardless of what the minimum wage is.
But if minimum wage gets raised, prices go up even moreso. Just because inflation naturally exists doesn't mean we should encourage it along.

Also, raise minimum wage, and you get a surplus of labor. And some people will get fired. Who gets fired first? Usually the people that need the jobs the most.
 

Munch

Diabloii.Net Member
Stark_ said:
Minimum wage is bad because it's a kind of price floor. Price floors and ceilings disrupt the natural flow of a market economy, which usually results in a less efficient economy and ends up hurting the poorer people the most. Ironic.
True, but if and only if that minimum wage creates a price floor that is higher than the market will bear without controls. Minimum wages in the past have been much lower than that for it to have any effect whatsoever on the employment/unemployment rates.
 

thejdawg2

Diabloii.Net Member
AeroJonesy said:
But if minimum wage gets raised, prices go up even moreso. Just because inflation naturally exists doesn't mean we should encourage it along.

Also, raise minimum wage, and you get a surplus of labor. And some people will get fired. Who gets fired first? Usually the people that need the jobs the most.
Either way, the worker is getting screwed. It just depends on how much they're getting paid to get screwed.
 

Stark_

Diabloii.Net Member
Munch said:
True, but if and only if that minimum wage creates a price floor that is higher than the market will bear without controls. Minimum wages in the past have been much lower than that for it to have any effect whatsoever on the employment/unemployment rates.
It has kind of a trickle up effect. If you have to pay someone say $6 an hour for sweeping a floor, then you have to pay someone working at an entry level manufacturing job say $15 an hour, which is why more and more jobs are going overseas. American labor is very overvalued in a lot of unskilled industries.
 

Munch

Diabloii.Net Member
Stark_ said:
It has kind of a trickle up effect. If you have to pay someone say $6 an hour for sweeping a floor, then you have to pay someone working at an entry level manufacturing job say $15 an hour, which is why more and more jobs are going overseas. American labor is very overvalued in a lot of unskilled industries.
Not the point. Unskilled industries that are being sent abroad are being paid wages much higher than minimum wage.

And under my conditions I mentioned, there is no trickle up effect. At all. If it did, that would mean the minimum wage was set higher than what the market would normally bear.
 

jimmyboy

Diabloii.Net Member
MatMan said:
From the Associated Press:

John Kerry says he'll campaign to repeal President Bush's tax cuts, raise the minimum wage and make health care more available. <snip rest of story regarding Super Tuesday results>

That's wonderful. Just as we're out of recession, he pledges to raise costs for small businesses, then promises to take more money from them while he's at it. I seem to remember this strategy working very poorly for Walter Mondale back in 1984. Bush will win in a landslide.
Cool. I'm voting for Kerry.

The Bush tax cuts benefited the rich the most (People with income above $100,000). No more loopholes in the form of capital gains tax for the rich. Oh boo hoo.

Our health care is crap compared to all other developing nations. Its about time someone had the guts to stand up to the American Medical Association and the defense industry. Frankly, I am sick of paying for wars in foreign land. I'd rather my tax dollars pay for my medical than for another bomb.
 

Steve_Kow

Banned
maccool said:
And why weren't you bitching when Reagan and Bush raised taxes?

Although repeal and raise both start with 'r', that's where the similarities end. Last I checked, Kerry only wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and the bloated corporations. Interesting how you fail to mention that Kerry has actually proposed a middle class tax cut. Facts always get in the way.

Oh well, spin on; don't bother to do any research or think for yourself. It does tend to make voting painful.
Mac, if the tax cuts are repealed, people will pay more than they do now. That would qualify as 'raising' taxes in my book.
 

maccool

Diabloii.Net Member
Oh, so now I don't get to spin information? What a rip! :lol:

Point is, Kerry only wants to repeal the tax cuts for those making over 110K per year. I'm sure once elected, he'll raise taxes for everyone, but right now, he's making campaign promises.
 
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