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JMoB- Good enough for SP?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by japanzaman, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    So after spending the past two weeks burning over 2000 perfect gems I finally got close to getting that elusive Jeweler's Monarch of Deflection.

    jm5.png

    So I'm wondering if this is an acceptable shield for SP. I'm not really into max black for any of my characters and honestly one of the only reasons I was after one of these was more for bragging purposes (and finding away to put my massive stash of perfect gems to use).

    Anybody who has ever tried to roll one of these knows how tough it is to get a Jeweler's mod on a Monarch, so I'd be really hard pressed to keep pushing for an extra bit of block speed and block % as a non-duelling character. It appears to be 2 frames slower on the block for a sorceress, and 1 for Javazon. The % to block is non-issue as I wouldn't invest points anyway.

    Also, I'm leaning towards lightning facets for this shield unless somebody can convince me of a better use for it. I can think of 3 classes that could make use of lightning, as opposed to maybe 2 for ice. Opinions are appreciated!
     
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  2. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Why not? If I burned 4 x 5/5 facets on Jeweler's Aegis of Deflecting then I see nothing wrong with JMoB. Heck, I'm pretty sure they require about even str+dex combo for maxblock block and requirements.

    Obvious choice is LF zon and I don't think you should skip maxblock for her. You already need 141 dex for eth upped Titan's or 151 for Thunderstroke. No clue about other light classes to use it, but no clue about what other classes can use it anyway.

    So yeah, go with light and make your LF zon happy. Also, you really want to use that of Blocking suffix or plain white 4os Monarch is same as this one you burned 2k pgems on.
     
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  3. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    It's pretty hard to get a set of four 5/5 lightning jewels. If you have one, you probably have a bunch of non-perfect ones as well which are a better choice for a non-perfect shield IMO.
     
  4. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    You were extremely optimistic when you tried to roll JMoD with only 2k pgems. JMoD spawns once in 15322 monarchs, so at average you need 45966 pgems to roll one. Jeweler's mod spawns once in 326 monarchs, so to get random jeweler's monarch you need at average 978 pgems. 2k pgems will bring you at average 2 such monarchs while having chance for both being without any suffix (meaning useless). In comparison, you have higher chance to roll 45 life skiller with useful skill tree than to roll JMoD. I'm not exaggerating, I just checked with calculator. Useful being shadow skills, trap skills, all sorc skills, pnb skills, paladin combat skills and javelin skills. Not any of the others some could also find useful.

    Maybe you did know all that, maybe you didn't. Doesn't matter now. In SPF everything is acceptable, even playing without shield. Why not. Best use of such shield I can think of is lite facets for javazon. At the same time such shield would be rather bad for any other lighting based character. For what? Sorc? Foher? Yes, you can use it on them, but such shield on them would be rather novelty usage than useful one. Spirit beats it to the ground on sorc, and foher has much stronger paladin shields instead.

    Other uses are poison facets for rabies druid to boost his damage. That wouldn't be bad usage, but maybe not the best possible one. Maybe going with large 2 hander is much better for such druid and combine fury with rabies rather than relying largely only on rabies. Or rather Stormshield for nice DR. Then maybe poison javazon? Maybe.

    Cold... I can't think of anything meaningful. Spirit beats it to the ground on any kind of sorc, unless you want novelty usage. Frostmaiden needs bow... what else is there with cold damage? Frost zealot which can make much better use of any random paladin shield instead. Assassin uses claws.

    Fire... fissure druid could use it, but he has powerful Phoenix which would be better anyway. Firesorc also has Phoenix... Hypothetically you could aim for a block on them, but you can do without also no problem, so why bother. What else is there? Fireblast assassin, she also has Phoenix as option instead.

    For novelty usage such shield can be nice. For optimal usage... only LF zon really.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  5. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Well, if this was asked ahead of time I would've said that using pgems on Monarchs is pretty pointless, from an efficiency standpoint - requiring exactly 1 prefix paired with exactly 1 suffix and since I'm too lazy to check exactly how many affixes there actually are I'll just go with what Arreat Summit says: 23 prefixes and 32 suffixes - ranking even below rerolling Jewels. To compare, for a max level grand charm roughly 15 (this does depend a decent bit on the person involved, but I think 15 is reasonably representative of an average player) prefixes are worth keeping out of a total of 108 available, while for suffixes about 8 are worth keeping, out of a possible 36, so in terms of expected value for your pgems trying to roll a JMoD is about as close as you can come in D2 to setting your money on fire.

    Beyond that, JMoD just isn't that great. I found one and never used it. Ever. In the five years since I gave it away it has, to my knowledge, never been used. At all. Despite being held by multiple people with the wealth and oddball tilt to use it. The problem is a javazon is really the only character who can make use of it, and even then you have to get perfect light facets and it's still not that much better than Spirit or Phoenix. And by "not that much better" what I'm meaning is something along the lines of if a 4x5/5 light faceted JMoD is 100% efficiency, Spirit is probably 95% and Phoenix is probably 98%, maybe more. It's a very small difference, considering how insanely rare the shield is. If you find a JMoD, yeah it's worth the go, but it's not worth throwing away multiple Harpoonists of Sust/Vita/Balance/etc trying to roll one.

    But we live here now, so none of that really matters. Yes, you can use a Jeweler's Monarch of Blocking just fine, but like froz said you should make use of the blocking (what was the point in rolling Monarchs if you weren't going to block with them? White Monarchs drop like rain and none of the other suffixes are great [60 life maybe? 4 max damage, etc. doesn't seem worth it]) since you've put in the resources and since it is such a small investment on a zon.
     
  6. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    Ha ha ha.

    Yes, looking back, I was rather optimistic about my odds with that shield. One of the reasons I tried was mainly because I really didn't have much else to roll on. My years of running LK has left me with at least 10 skillers from almost all the skill trees, and crafting has never been much of a hobby of mine. The Javazon was definitely the first to come to mind, and I have 2 perfect facets and two more 5/4 facets that could be put to use there and really have no other use.

    Also, I would say that I was rolling the Jeweler mod on about 1/100 rolls, not 326. I guess I was just lucky, as I rolled 6 other Jeweler shields, 3 with a suffix in the ~700 or so shields that I rolled. I don't doubt Gripphon's numbers- my experience was just a lot different. I probably would have quit had I gone 300 and still no Jewelers.

    I perfectly agree with the notion that using pgems for a JMoD would not be a good idea if there was any better use to be found. For me, I really didn't have one and I'm not the trading type. So here we are indeed. I guess I'll roll with this one. Thanks for the input!

    Oh, and just for fun I have some screenies of most of the other near misses I rolled, for your viewing pleasure. The one on the very bottom almost made me cry.

    jm1.png

    jm2.png

    jm4.png
    AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  7. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    You really don't have any use of good small charms you could roll with pgems? If you don't care about grand charms which I could understand, but 2k pgems could bring you 5-6 really good and useful small charms you could use on many characters. Don't you think that is a much better use for pgems than to hope for a miracle with non-existent chance of getting something about what, as you said, don't really care about except for bragging reasons? I can understand your wish to hope for a miracle and are willing to throw thousands of pgems into wind, but that you don't really see better use for pgems, that is very strange to me. I mean, seriously.
     
  8. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    If you're using plain skillers on your javazon, then replacing one of them with a low roll Sustenance suffix will boost your overall character more than using a 4x5/5 JMoD (or w/e shield) instead of Spirit. I find the notion that you can't improve your characters more from rolling Grand Charms than using the pgems on anything else highly unlikely. Even if that is true, that still leaves rolling Small Charms for all res/Fine/Steel/Serpent's/Ruby/Amber/elemental damage prefixes and MF/life/Balance/elemental damage suffixes or rolling Jewels for Scintillating/Vermilion/Ruby/Ambergris/Ruby/Diamond prefixes and Fervor/Carnage/Truth/Freedom suffixes. Even if you were going to use a JMoD for it's blocking, one of most of those items would be more useful and more effective at making your characters better.

    And I'm sure it sounds like I'm trying to tell you what to do, but that's not my real intention here. What I'm trying to do is point out 1. that rolling Monarchs is just bad value 2. that you have other options which are more likely to give you a return on your investment and 3. to point out that what you've laid out to us makes no sense. You literally said in your first post "I don't need a JMoD, nor intend to make use of it since a plain white Monarch would work identically well for my plans, but I've spent 2000 pgems rolling this effectively white Monarch that I'm now going to use," which sounds a bit like "I was on the way to the bank to deposit my paycheck, but I walked by this bottomless pit and figured what the hell." You spent time out of your life farming those pgems; they have value and you should expect to get a return out of whatever you spend them on. If you aren't even going to use a JMoD as a JMoD is it really worth spending something you worked to get, especially when there are better options for spending those resources? In 2000 pgems you can expect to get multiple good prefix GCs with >15 life, whereas to get exactly a JMoD you need to spend (according to the calculator grip referenced) 45,966 pgems to have a 62.5% chance to hit. That's not a particularly high chance, especially when given the investment. And, to hammer those points home, if you do want to roll Monarchs why are you looking for a JMoD if you don't want to block? of the Ox, of the Colossus, of Maiming, of Defiance, of Regeneration, of Equilibrium, of Negation, of Simplicity would all be more useful to you as a suffix if you don't intend to make use of the blocking though, again, a plain white Monarch also works absolutely fine and costs basically nothing.

    They're your pgems and you can use them however you want, but I just want to make sure you understand that they have value and that you could invest them in a way that has a higher expected return. If you want to roll a JMoD, then go right ahead, but do so with the understanding that you're throwing away dozens of potential charms or jewels that would help your characters at least as much as a JMoD in the hunt.
     
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  9. Zenigma

    Zenigma IncGamers Member

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    JMoD -- for the man who has everything
     
  10. Zylo

    Zylo IncGamers Member

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    Grats on the shield. Are you going the zon route then? Had you rolled a JMoD, what big plans did you have for it?

    I found one of these from the most recent RFO, and I've been wondering what to do with it.(This thread has good timing.)
     
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  11. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    Okay, just so we don't get into an endless back and forth on this, let me just say that you all are right in that throwing pgems at a monarch is not a good idea. I went into the project thinking my odds were more like 1/8000 (which I had read somewhere) and not 1/45000. Probably would not have done this had I known the specific numbers.

    So 2K perfect gems burned and I got a nifty consolation prize. Money well spent? Probably not. But I can say I actually enjoyed this, which at this point in D2 is really what I find the most valuable anyway. [queue sappy music]
     
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  12. NoisemakerArrow

    NoisemakerArrow IncGamers Member

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