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Javazon for Baal-running - Questions & opinions

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Corrupted, Mar 30, 2005.

  1. Corrupted

    Corrupted IncGamers Member

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    Javazon for Baal-running - Questions & opinions

    I've been studying at the Amazon forum, but I was still left with things to be covered.

    I'm making a Lightning Javazon for Baal-running, I'll be skipping the WSK and head straight for the Throne, I need to be able to kill Baal at P8 and most of his minions aswell.


    Skills
    I guess I should focus on getting CS as synergized as possible, I only have one question though - how important is Level 17 Valkyrie?


    Equipment
    I figured out most of it, but I have a few questions though.

    I have no clue about what boots to use, I'm thinking Goreriders just to help me versus LI's, Silkweave to solve mana issues, or rare ones adding resistances.

    As far as Armor goes I'm thinking of these:
    Duriel's Shell - Duriel's Shell frees up a ring slot and adds resistance and life bonuses.
    Skin of the Vipermagi - This covers the +1 skill lost from using Raven Frost and it adds a nice amount of resistances too - that's the choice I like the most.
    Lionheart - Well, in general I think it's a very good armor, but the stat-bonuses doesn't matter that much to me, and the other two adds resistances too - this will just cost me +1 skill.


    Baal - Can I kill him on P8 solely using Charged Strike and a Wand of Lower resist? Or would I need CB to do that? (In proper speed)

    Lightning Immunes - How should I deal with them? I see a couple of options: Jab: Demon's Arch/Tiamat's Rebuke, Ethereal Upgraded Hone-Sundan, Arioc's Needle, Witchwild String.
    I also thought about using Laying of Hands for 350% Damage to demons, is this worth my while versus LI Demons such as Bartuc?


    Mercenary
    I plan using a Might mercenary to speed up the killing of LI's - what do you think?

    I was thinking of making a Gloom for him too, I think the CtC Dim Vision will prove very useful versus nasty boss gloams - opinions?



    I think that would be it for now, I might add more in case I forgot something.
     
  2. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    IMO, lvl 17 valk is important simply because she helps to kill the LIs faster. The use of her as a tank is very useful to speed things up as well and lvl 17 valk doesn't always last long anyway(esp is u only have 1 in d/a/e)

    Skin of the vipermagi is a good choice. +skills, resists, even fast cast. Zons have a terrible cast rate.

    CB definitely helps to kill Baal faster but place the eth upgraded hone sudanon your might merc and he'll handle that aspect for you. You can kill Baal solely with charged strike alone, the lower resists just makes it faster.

    Might merc kills LIs the fastest so its a good choice to go with. HF mercs make it a little safer though for you and my personal feeling is that when Baal is frozen, he teleports a lot less meaning I kill him faster.

    LIs: you can even just use jab with Titans.

    I'm not sure how well the dim vision for Gloom works. Isn't the duration in hell fairly short? Its still a very good armour though with resists etc.

    Overall, see your survivabilty. I think in the long run, its more worthwhile to do a slower Baal run than get killed and waste 45min-1h.
     
  3. JihadJesus

    JihadJesus IncGamers Member

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    Okay, I have to disagree here. If anything I run into is LI, my merc rips it apart before my valk can even scratch it. For a MF build, a Valk is a tank, nothing more. If she dies, cast another one.
     
  4. Corrupted

    Corrupted IncGamers Member

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    This is not mf runs, this is p8 baal runs.
     
  5. nobo

    nobo IncGamers Member

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    for me its not that important too, i spent only 1pt in valk. i prefer casting decoy in lister etc. (it has no cast delay) and my merc should kill LIs.

    i'd suggest vipernmagi as armor and silkweaves as boots. more mf is very useful, so i'd suggest skullders and wartravellers if you can get some resistances from somewhere else (e.g. mosers)

    i've never tried that, but even without a wand of lower resist baal goes down in no time (ok, he could go down faster :) ).
    p8 baal should be no problem with such a wand or some cb on your merc...

    jab. a merc with reaper's toll can help alot. and bartuc is almost never LI.

    might merc - but hf will help alot to kill lister&co (iirc baal can't be frozen by hf-merc-aura???)

    i've never made that runeword...
    ...but you can deal well with gloams if you equip thundergod's vigor (change the belt right before the 1st wave)

    mfg nobo
     
  6. NSXdreamer

    NSXdreamer IncGamers Member

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    I always like max summon if I plan on using them. The level 27 valk my strafer has last longer than some of the melee characters I play with. :D
     
  7. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    Really? I confess I never had such a strong merc as that. In fact, my mercs seem to fall fairly easier to Baal's minions esp the 2nd/3rd wave. I don't use an act II merc for my lightning zon either :)

    I do think 1 pt in valk is too little. I suppose lvl 9 could be a good compromise.
     
  8. JihadJesus

    JihadJesus IncGamers Member

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    I misread, I didn't realize you were doing high player Baal runs. Probably a good idea to have a higher level Valk. My comments were more for general MF purposes.
     
  9. jjscud

    jjscud IncGamers Member

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    I think this is easy if you just play it safe.

    Equipement is easily swapped so there's not a huge concern there.

    I reached lvl 93 with a might merc and decided he was dying too often. I swapped him for a HF merc and ot only took 5 hours of careful leveling to reach the mid 80s so even a merc isn't permenant. I don't regret the decision at all and would strongly suggest a HF merc.

    Skills are the only thing you can't undo. I agree that my valk never does noticable damage, but she is a useful tank. Personally I would suggest at least 10 points but this could fall anywhere.

    Anyways, my point is, you can play it safe and not place the valk skills until you feel really need them.

    To be a little useful, I've used Skins of the viper, Smoke, Gloom, and finally decided on Tals Armor.

    For boots I've used Natalya's Souls and Aldurs Advance for 40% frw and to clean up needed resists.

    For weapons I use titans on normal and switch.
     
  10. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    Skills - I put something like 14 points into valk and I regret it. she is not strong enough in hell to do noticable damage on lvl20. but something like 5 points is nice to make her not to die often.

    I would try Silkweave. Never used them, but I use MF set up... On the other hand it will not help you with Baal. so at the end you will be using fast boots with resists (Nat's boots)

    LI's - Only immunes in Baal's throne are Burning Souls. I use a lower resist wand. It's the best way, because they have also 90% physical resistance...
    I have a good map, so I don't care about monsters in WSK2,3. The only very bad monster that can spawn LI is Lister - if he has LE mod. He has large chunk of life.

    Armor. +skills really adds to your killing power. Otherwise, I would search for socketed armors (cover all your needs - IAS, lightning facets, resists)

    Wand of resists speed up things a lot. If you want, make your own math. But your attack sould be more than 2 times powerful (against Baal).

    Mercenary. Again LI's are not so bad for me. HF merc with Kelpie can tank everything. (Well he dies by IM or Conviction with Burning Souls shooting lightnings). He speeds up killing Baal very much. (He makes him "stoned" on one place, doing nothing)

    Notable things: CS will get more bolts as you reach higher levels. You will get one more bolt at skill-lvl 30 and another one at skill-lvl 35. Try to reach this numbers, it's great improvement. Also -% resistances are always nice. Try to use Griffon's Eye, Thunderstroke, lightning facets. Try to get your IAS to get a breakpoint too. (Weapon speed calculator - use a blade instead of javelin for normal attack - otherwise you will get throw breakpoints)
     
  11. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    I would get Valkyrie to as high a level as possible...On players 8 things can turn into quite a slugfest, and unless you have a really decked out merc he isn't going to do all the tanking alone. Also I think that a Holy Freeze merc's crowd control capabilities will serve you much better than the added damage of a might merc...Gloom sounds like a very good armor and hopefully the Dim Vision will kick in before he's dead:) Get a Vampire Gaze for some life leech and damage reduction, that should take care of everything along with the 50% resist on Gloom.

    You really need some crushing blow, but I also think you should use a Kelpie Snare (on your merc) as Hrus says, that weapon kicks ass especially against Baal. So I think Gore riders would be nice boots..if you can still get decent resists, otherwise rares. Laying Of Hands are very cool gloves...use them. 20% IAS to attack faster, the insane damage to demons, and you're going to be fighting a lot of demons, and lastly the sweet 50% fire resistance, godly. I think Witchwild String would be a very interesting weapon to use on switch...

    I assume that this is for experience only??? If so then perhaps tune down the player settings to 5...that gives the optimal experience/hit points ratio, and still retains a very good drop chance, would also be a lot easier. Correct me if I'm wrong but a lightning amazon seems to be a bit of a glass cannon that needs to dispense of her enemies quickly...or else. So on players 5 you'd still get good experience and have an easier time preventing monsters from getting to you...sweet.
     
  12. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    Chimaira, you don't have Baal running lightning zon, don't you?
    1) WSK is no good to run at P8. Only B's minions and B himself are good for EXP later. Also Lightning zon would struggle a lot at P8 if the Burning Souls spawn there. At low Player settings, lightning zons slaughter all the mosters there, she doesn't need much leech also and thanks to her passives and block she doesn't need a PDR too (espesially if she wears SS) What the Baalrunner need is a killing power, so the helm with + skills is an obvious choice.

    2) Laying of Hands are nice gloves, but the best would be crafted blood gloves with +20IAS, +2java skills (and I think +3 java/+20Ias magic gloves could be even better).
    Note that the +%damage to demons is based only on physical damage - I have around 900 physical damage, but more than 20k lightning damage with CS. And with the right uber gear you could do a lot more.

    3) I don't think that CB is so good at lightning amazon.
    Your main attack - CS is not hitting often and is kind of slow (in comparison with zeal or smite) to trigger CB much. It's good to know, that CS on a good builded lightning zon deals MORE damage than CB on Baal with full life.
     
  13. DX-Crawler

    DX-Crawler Banned

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    Don't forget the Unique Thunderstroke. I would use it when you are using CS and Titans when you are using LF. Put a lightning facet in Thunderstroke aswell and I think P8 Baal will fall rather quickly. And if you can obtain a Griffons Eye it won't hurt to use that one aswell.

    Good Luck

    DX
     
  14. frosty

    frosty IncGamers Member

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    you can't socket javelins.
     
  15. Absel

    Absel IncGamers Member

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    How can you put a facet in a javelin?
     
  16. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    No I don't have a lightning zon that is capable of running Baal, I do have a spear lightning zon so I do know a little about this...No expert not at all.

    1. I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here...I did suggest lowering the player settings, didn't I. When I said glasscannon I merely meant that her offensive skills are her best assets as you also say, she isn't going to tank Lister on players 8 anytime soon. If you're talking about Vampire Gaze here ("so the helm with + skills is an obvious choice") that was for the merc....If you run Baal on players 8...isn't that for experience??? If you just want drops, players 1-3 will suffice.

    2. I know that the enhanced damage is taken from physical damage only...but he asked if the gloves would be cool for taking down LI demons, and I think they are. A good pair of crafted blood gloves with Crushing Blow and +java skills would be better, but Laying Of Hands is easier to find.

    3. There are still LI immunes, where crushing blow will be really sweet...Also Goreriders are good boots and if he doesn't need the resists, I say go for it. Okay you probably don't need crushing blow, that was :rolleyes: . When attacking Baal one could consider using Jab, for ultra fast attack if you had lots of crushing blow, this would probably deal more damage in the beginning.

    Sorry my post was a bit confusing, you can't really tell if I'm talking about merc/amazon:(
     
  17. Corrupted

    Corrupted IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for your input fellow forumites.

    Not to mock your english, but I didn't get this?

    I realized Gloams has 100% Lightning resistances by default, which means their immunity will be removed by my wand, lovely!

    I'll be testing various setups for Baal-killing, which shield would be good with Thunderstroke - Socket 4 Lighting Facet Monarch? Haven't got that though ^_^

    What setups are your mercenaries using? I am planning Kira's Guardian+Guardian Angel+Reaper's Toll/Ethereal upgraded Hone-Sundan

    Oh, and I noticed I don't have mana leech from anymore - how important is this? will a couple of potions suffice per run - or should I focus on getting ML on my gloves?
     
  18. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    He means you have to use a Blade (the weapon type) in the calculator instead of a Javelin. If you use javelin the listed attack/breakpoints will be for a throw attack...as if you're launching javelins at the target instead of "jabbing" it.

    Hope my english is better:)

    Manaleech on gloves would be awesome especially if you get +java skills too...Craft away.
     
  19. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    @chimaira: I think I haven't read your previous post carefully, appologies...

    1. right (appology) My merc uses Vamp Gaze and Guardian Angel (with ORT socketed)

    2. right (but the only 2 monsters I can think of are LE Lister (LI) or magic resistant LE Bartuc (LI, but this combination is not so often and he has much less HP than Lister) )

    3. I have to think about the Goreriders option... No I still like my new +30 LR,+35 PR, 10% FHR, 22MF, 30% FRW boots more.... Like I said, I don't think that CB is so cool on this build.
     
  20. Corrupted

    Corrupted IncGamers Member

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    I hear people mentioning ethereal upgraded Titan's Revenge is totally uber_awesome!!1!!111!!!337

    Why? More Lifeleech?

    Titan's Revenge
    Ceremonial Javelin
    Throw Damage: 93 to 254
    One-Hand Damage: 93 to 181
    Quantity: 140
    (Amazon Only)
    Required Dexterity: 109
    Required Strength: 25
    Required Level: 42
    Javelin Class - Fast Attack Speed
    Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
    Item Level: 82
    Fingerprint: 0xa4378d2e
    +20 to Strength
    +20 to Dexterity
    +152% Enhanced Damage
    +25 to Minimum Damage
    +50 to Maximum Damage
    5% Life stolen per hit
    +2 to Amazon Skill Levels
    30% Faster Run/Walk
    +2 to Javelin and Spear Skills (Amazon Only)
    Replenishes Quantity
    Increased Stack Size
    Ethereal (Cannot be Repaired)

    This is in the very-low end of ED%, but still better than a max ED non-ethereal one - should I bother upgrading it? (I'll have to hunt even more Puls)
     

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