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Israel kills Hamas leader

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Scipico-Africanus, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. Scipico-Africanus

    Scipico-Africanus IncGamers Member

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    Israel kills Hamas leader

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3556099.stm


    Just saw this on the BBC. I would imagine that this will escalete the problems. Not pointing of fingers here as I beleive both sides are culpable for the present situation, I do think however that it retaliatoin from Hamas is inevitable and will no doubt be bloody.
     
  2. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    I was thinking the same thing when I read that on CNN.com a few mins ago. There's gonna be more suicide attacks in the next couple days. :(
     
  3. Pierrot le Fou

    Pierrot le Fou IncGamers Member

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    I just can't believe it took a missle from a helicopter to kill a quadripelegic. Am I the only one who thinks that's a tad bit of overkill?
     
  4. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    Hey, if it ain't broke don't fix it. It worked, didn't it?
     
  5. tarnok

    tarnok IncGamers Member

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    Hey, in real life there's no such thing as overkill. If there's one thing that CS has taught me its that the safest place to shoot someone is in the back while all of their friends are looking in the other direction and your friends are firing on them. Only you shoot them with a sniper rifle from across the level.

    _That's_ the way to get things done.
     
  6. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    In the army we just use the 'spray and pray' method when we want to overkill something.
     
  7. Geeno

    Geeno IncGamers Member

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    Im done with paying attention to these guys.
     
  8. Suicidal Zebra

    Suicidal Zebra IncGamers Member

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    *wonders if there are many religious farmers in the Canadian Army Corp*
     
  9. Syxx

    Syxx IncGamers Member

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    I understand a total of 6 other people were killed in taking out the Hamas Leader. 2 were body guards ... the other 4 innocent passerbys, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    You don't see anything wrong with this... do you just class this as acceptable calateral damage ?

    Don't you think its abit overboard to use missles in built up areas where lots are civilians are ?

    Regards
    Syxx
     
  10. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    The endless cycle of violence and bloodshed ...
     
  11. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    I meant spraying bullets automatic style, fool!

    Syxx: No, I don't think it's acceptable. That's not the point. I wasn't making a value judgment, just pointing out that it got the job done. The means to the ends are still up for debate.
     
  12. Drosselmeier

    Drosselmeier IncGamers Member

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    That´s bad news for everyone.

    Weird how the IDF has morphed into exactly the kind of organization they´re out to fight.

    Sharon is not interested in peace. Those who still doubted after the temple-mount visit should be convinced by this.
     
  13. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    I say good job! They got one of the SOB's that's been inciting the cowardly terrorism.

    Overkill would have been using a MOAB. Killing moving vehicles with missles is simply the most cost effective method. Both in damage done and survivability for the men launching the missle.
     
  14. Nastie_Bowie

    Nastie_Bowie Banned

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    A MOAB just would have made sure of a hit. The missle could have missed.
     
  15. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    I think Israel's unspoken Palestine policy is blast two or three of them for every one of us they blast. So this collateral damage was probably anticipated and greenlighted enthusiastically by whoever put the op together. However, the type of people who stand around when an Israeli attack helicopter flies in are the same type of people who stand around when shots are fired. Collateral damage is all but unavoidable.

    Air strikes are probably Israel's best bet for several reasons.

    1) Tech is their strong point in this conflict. This fight is essentially technology vs. mass numbers from Palestine's higher birth rate. Air strikes provide a way of insuring absolutely, as far as Palestine is concerned, that only the other side suffers casualties.

    2) They were obviously dealing with highly time-sensitive intelligence. I'd estimate their window of oppurtunity on this one at roughly half an hour. You can get a jet or chopper on stage a hell of a lot faster than you can get a sniper into position and plan his escape route, which itself is a hell of a lot faster than putting a squad on the ground, planning their attack strategy, and planning their escape.

    Some of the other plans may be more solid and may or may not cause fewer civilian casualties, but he was a high value target for the Israelis and I would guess he was no more than ten minutes away from being back under the radar for an indeterminable length of time when those missiles struck. If they wanted him they had to move.

    3) More and more stories are cropping up about Israelis refusing to serve their military time. They're going out into the field and coming home comparing themselves with Hitler's ****s. The air strike not only puts your own men at less of a risk, but also makes it a much more impersonal kill. The guy who fired the missiles quite possibly still has no idea who he killed or if he killed. The chances for adverse psychological reactions are a lot lower this way than if they send the guy out to personally pump him full of lead or bulldoze his house.

    4) Missiles tend to miss less than gunmen and do splash damage. We're dealing with a target that's not only high value, but has handily (har har) escaped several attempts on his life. You just have to hedge your bets on it. If you seriously want to take him down, you have no choice.

    Don't get me wrong, I personally don't advocate killing indiscriminantly. I just see the air strike as Israel's best tactical option if they wanted to convert their intelligence into real world results, so I understand why it would be employed.

    The problem is that Hamas is not solely a militaristic movement. It's a terrorist group that is so deeply involved in Palestinian community betterment projects that they're practically the YMCA, a relief organization, and a branch of the local government all rolled into one band of murderous renegades. They enjoy a strong popular support particularly in the Gaza strip, and as we've pretty much covered here, the reaction to this is most likely not going to be a pleasant or diplomatic one.
     
  16. tydon

    tydon IncGamers Member

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    I think israel just about screwed any option of peace for years. The Hamas, as said before, are widely supported because most of their sect does not participate in terrorist actions. They are, as palestian militant groups go, one of the better ones. Israel picked the wrong group to go after here, they just made alot of people, even people outside the palestian ideals, angry. Personally I think it is cowardly and stupid. Instead of trying to solve the problem, they just keep it going. Israel may not like it, but the palestians have a valid reason to be angry.
     
  17. Azonian

    Azonian IncGamers Member

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    Overkill?

    Missiles also insures that you hit any body guards posing as the leader...(decoy for snipers) 1 shot 6 kills....
     
  18. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    There hasn't been peace since Israel was formed. It was the arabs that attacked them first. It has always been the arabs. The arabs attacked Israel three times. The arabs have launched multiple jihads against Israel. The arabs deliberately blow up women and children.
    Israel didn't cause the fighting. It has always been the arabs who fired the first shot. So you can't say Israel screwed any chance of peace. Not while all they are doing is fighting a war that was started against them.

    Huh? Hamas is THE predominate terrorist organization in the middle east. They freely admit to it.

    Better at what? Killing Jews because they are Jews? I have to ask, do you support what Hamas stands for?

    The only people angry over this are those who were angry already. They want to destroy Israel because it's Jewish. It's rampant anti-semitism at it's worse.

    The problem is that they HATE the Jews. Unbridled and irrational hatred of a religious nature. There is no way to solve that problem short of slaughter.

    That is, unless what you would like to see is Israel cease to exist. That though wouldn't solve the problem with the Palestinians. Nobody over there wants them. Jordan kicked them out because they were killing Jordanians. Syria kicked them out for the same reason. So you see, there is no solution. None short of genocide.
     
  19. Stevinator

    Stevinator IncGamers Member

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    I don't think the method of killing this guy is as important as the fact that they killed him.

    Some of you seem to think that ireal did not have the right to attack the leader of an organzation that's at war with them? And that's if i'm kind enough not to call them terrorists....because they are terrorists, and the going ons of the palestine/isreal conflict do impact the USA's war on terror.

    Do you think anyone who's trying to quash an uprising would NOT try to kill the leader? Sure, Hamas is more than your regular insurgents...they're fighting for a specific country that they believe is theirs....and if it wasn't for the mettling of the larger international scene, they would be on that land now. So i have a certain level of sympathy for them...but even if they were "like the YMCA" as some have claimed, they still send kids younger than much of this forum onto buses loaded with innocents, strapped with explosives and nails or ball bearings for maxium shrapnel. They still bomb and shoot anyone they think they can get away with. they still say they will continue to fight until the isrealis are purged from their land completely.

    They are not all big brothers and midnight basketball. and in war, people die.

    the only thing i'm worried about is now what's left of Hamas's leaders think the USA did this, and now they say they're going to make us pay as well.
     
  20. tydon

    tydon IncGamers Member

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    Oh, taking away the palestians land for no reason is perfectly okay then? If you lost your home for no reason, would you want it back? Furthermore, if the government, (un in this case), ruled you got to keep some of it, but you never got that part, would you be mad?

    Some of them are yes. That is like saying all of the NRA are para militarys.

    I support the palestians because they have never gotten a fair shake. Take your land and screw you over when you fight to get it back.....yeah......sure...

    They did not want to destroy israel because its jewish, they wanted to because it was their land.

    How about we stop supporting israel just because we feel guilty ove what happened in ww2?
     

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