Is their any necrobuilds that can compete with one point wonders?
- Thread starter Logosseven
- Start date
MYK
Diablo: IncGamers Member
It's really poor.
The synergies suck, also. Maxing the golem + golem mastery will make it as strong as it's really going to get. The minor synergy bonuses are kind of a waste.
I do think an Iron Golemancer wouldn't be too bad. Max Iggy, and Iggy mastery, then you'll def want a big CE radius because he won't be mass killing like skeletons might. Spend the rest in your favorite curses - I'd try Dim Vision and maybe confuse.
I've been wanting to build one of these for a while.
Darker Realm
Diabloii.Net Member
All Golems should be, one point wonders for those starting out in Golems. But when one becomes more experienced there are additional possibilities if those skills are to be developed further.
One example would be the Golemancer. I'm considering to build a one to max Clay, Blood, Iron, Fire, and Golem Mastery as well as develop on Summon Resist. Clay and Fire will be maxed first, and Blood and Iron Golem (gives +Defense synergy) will be maxed last because Golemmancers are already not very effective by themselves, and Attack Rating and Damage are most desireable in a Golem for maximum offense.
The other main reason for building a Golemancer is to create a very powerful Iron Golem (e.g E Last Wish Thunder Maul, E Beast Decapitator). The idea is to maximize the damage possible on an Iron Golem in terms of base damage and attack rating, even if it means only a small boost as you will see why. Then, the survivability of the Golem is increased after with points on Golem Mastery, Blood (Life) and Iron (Defense) synergies. What was previously a small boost in damage is applied permanently to a permanent Golem.
Golems are not very strong alone. Clay Golem speeds up the effectiveness of your other minions by slowing monsters down, Blood Golem drains Life which reduces drinking potions and increases the amount of time you can stay in battle. Iron Golem can inflict damage indirectly from thorns, or directly if it is made out of a good weapon. Fire Golem attracts monsters, and increases the survival of the other minions and does some Fire damage. Usually, only one of these Golems is out at a time.
But it is the only tool that Necromancers have. Thus for a Necromancer focusing on Golems, it is in one's best interest to use more than one Golem at once if necessary. Iron Golem is difficult to be summoned in conjunction with other Golems so it will be ruled out for now. But Clay, Blood, Fire Golem are still viable in a difficult battle. Summon Clay first, once the monsters have been slowed, use Fire to attract the already slowed monsters to further increase one's chance to survive as well of that of the army's. If the monsters are 1) Fire Immune 2) heavy on Poison/Magic damage or 3) if the Summoner is low on health, switch to Blood Golem which can do Physical damage instead and has some inherent Poison and Magic resistance, and has a life leech that can steal all the life back in one hit, at high skill levels.
Big bonus for Blood Golem is that Elemental damage will not drain life away from you.
This would apply equally in PvP for all types of necromancers. Use Clay first, slow them down then use Fire to deal additional damage or to finish them off in the case of Poison. Note that although Fire Golem may not be great against monsters except Cold Immunes, it can still be useful in a Battle as it means 200 additional damage for those without Lower Resist, and 400 for Necromancers with the Lower Resist + Conviction ability. Note that not all players have 75% Fire Resist, so one is able to take advantage of a lower Fire resistance.
There are no skills that are negative, and likewise there is no such thing as putting points in a certain skill will count against you (unless in special exceptions like Bone Armor where you could put points on Bone Wall/Prison instead). There are only good skills, and better skills. Basically, there are only different skills, each with its own unique properties. We work from there because each build is different and cannot be compared to each other if widely dissimilar.
One example would be the Golemancer. I'm considering to build a one to max Clay, Blood, Iron, Fire, and Golem Mastery as well as develop on Summon Resist. Clay and Fire will be maxed first, and Blood and Iron Golem (gives +Defense synergy) will be maxed last because Golemmancers are already not very effective by themselves, and Attack Rating and Damage are most desireable in a Golem for maximum offense.
The other main reason for building a Golemancer is to create a very powerful Iron Golem (e.g E Last Wish Thunder Maul, E Beast Decapitator). The idea is to maximize the damage possible on an Iron Golem in terms of base damage and attack rating, even if it means only a small boost as you will see why. Then, the survivability of the Golem is increased after with points on Golem Mastery, Blood (Life) and Iron (Defense) synergies. What was previously a small boost in damage is applied permanently to a permanent Golem.
Golems are not very strong alone. Clay Golem speeds up the effectiveness of your other minions by slowing monsters down, Blood Golem drains Life which reduces drinking potions and increases the amount of time you can stay in battle. Iron Golem can inflict damage indirectly from thorns, or directly if it is made out of a good weapon. Fire Golem attracts monsters, and increases the survival of the other minions and does some Fire damage. Usually, only one of these Golems is out at a time.
But it is the only tool that Necromancers have. Thus for a Necromancer focusing on Golems, it is in one's best interest to use more than one Golem at once if necessary. Iron Golem is difficult to be summoned in conjunction with other Golems so it will be ruled out for now. But Clay, Blood, Fire Golem are still viable in a difficult battle. Summon Clay first, once the monsters have been slowed, use Fire to attract the already slowed monsters to further increase one's chance to survive as well of that of the army's. If the monsters are 1) Fire Immune 2) heavy on Poison/Magic damage or 3) if the Summoner is low on health, switch to Blood Golem which can do Physical damage instead and has some inherent Poison and Magic resistance, and has a life leech that can steal all the life back in one hit, at high skill levels.
Big bonus for Blood Golem is that Elemental damage will not drain life away from you.
This would apply equally in PvP for all types of necromancers. Use Clay first, slow them down then use Fire to deal additional damage or to finish them off in the case of Poison. Note that although Fire Golem may not be great against monsters except Cold Immunes, it can still be useful in a Battle as it means 200 additional damage for those without Lower Resist, and 400 for Necromancers with the Lower Resist + Conviction ability. Note that not all players have 75% Fire Resist, so one is able to take advantage of a lower Fire resistance.
There are no skills that are negative, and likewise there is no such thing as putting points in a certain skill will count against you (unless in special exceptions like Bone Armor where you could put points on Bone Wall/Prison instead). There are only good skills, and better skills. Basically, there are only different skills, each with its own unique properties. We work from there because each build is different and cannot be compared to each other if widely dissimilar.
Darker Realm
Diabloii.Net Member
To build a Golem-mancer, I would expect the Necromancer be a melee based build or a Summon hybrid or a Poison / Bone hybrid.
For a melee-based Nec or a Battle Nec, skills would be close to a pure Golem Mancer, and equipment that would be typical melee gear (check the guides by Mad Mantis or TheKbob) or that of support-style, team-oriented gear like Crushing Blow, Chance to Cast skills, or Aura Granting items.
Note: If you have an Iron Golem already made out of an Aura Granting item, you can wield another Aura yourself, thus making the Golemancer the ultimate team player because a Paladin can at most contribute two Aura sources (Paladin + Mercenary). A Necromancer is able to carry three Aura sourcers (Nec + Merc + Golem). These are Aura sources, not limited to number of Auras themselves.
The Summon hybrid would use a Golem more extensively. Probably has 20 in Skeleton Mastery and strong investment in Golem, or vice versa maxed Skeleton, Mage, and Mastery and only 20 in a Golem of choice. Or, maybe one that uses Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Mastery only + a decent Golem.
Golems would be useful on a Bone Necromancer as the number one challenge for the Bone Nec is to keep monsters at a range. Strategic use of Golem would be perfect for a pure Bone Nec or a hybrid Golem / Bone build.
The other use for Golems is on a Poisonmancer but this one is a bit tricky, because sometimes you want the monsters to surround you. Thus it would be nice to summon a Fire Golem and follow it around and to use Clay Golem when you want to escape, leaving the Golem behind to slow down anything that chases. Of course it is already useful in PvP where the Holy Fire would take out anyone who has 1 or 2 points of Life left on the field.
Thus there is a very effective use for a Golem nec, and could be a perfect companion in Player versus Monster, Player versus Player (not necessarily dueling, defending against Pk's as well) as long as the opponent is hostile to a friend whom you are allied to and not yourself. It would be great to carry 3+ Auras around in a Baal run, and will be much more helpful than an Annihilus charm for those that you are benefiting. Also, it would be very helpful in Uber Runs because only the Golemancer's Iron Golem would be robust enough to handle such extreme conditions and would be supported by other player types, such has Barbarians with Battle Orders and Shout, and Paladins with Salvation.
For a melee-based Nec or a Battle Nec, skills would be close to a pure Golem Mancer, and equipment that would be typical melee gear (check the guides by Mad Mantis or TheKbob) or that of support-style, team-oriented gear like Crushing Blow, Chance to Cast skills, or Aura Granting items.
Note: If you have an Iron Golem already made out of an Aura Granting item, you can wield another Aura yourself, thus making the Golemancer the ultimate team player because a Paladin can at most contribute two Aura sources (Paladin + Mercenary). A Necromancer is able to carry three Aura sourcers (Nec + Merc + Golem). These are Aura sources, not limited to number of Auras themselves.
The Summon hybrid would use a Golem more extensively. Probably has 20 in Skeleton Mastery and strong investment in Golem, or vice versa maxed Skeleton, Mage, and Mastery and only 20 in a Golem of choice. Or, maybe one that uses Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Mastery only + a decent Golem.
Golems would be useful on a Bone Necromancer as the number one challenge for the Bone Nec is to keep monsters at a range. Strategic use of Golem would be perfect for a pure Bone Nec or a hybrid Golem / Bone build.
The other use for Golems is on a Poisonmancer but this one is a bit tricky, because sometimes you want the monsters to surround you. Thus it would be nice to summon a Fire Golem and follow it around and to use Clay Golem when you want to escape, leaving the Golem behind to slow down anything that chases. Of course it is already useful in PvP where the Holy Fire would take out anyone who has 1 or 2 points of Life left on the field.
Thus there is a very effective use for a Golem nec, and could be a perfect companion in Player versus Monster, Player versus Player (not necessarily dueling, defending against Pk's as well) as long as the opponent is hostile to a friend whom you are allied to and not yourself. It would be great to carry 3+ Auras around in a Baal run, and will be much more helpful than an Annihilus charm for those that you are benefiting. Also, it would be very helpful in Uber Runs because only the Golemancer's Iron Golem would be robust enough to handle such extreme conditions and would be supported by other player types, such has Barbarians with Battle Orders and Shout, and Paladins with Salvation.
AnimeCraze
Diabloii.Net Member
In terms of number of auras, the paladin is not any worse than the necro. Having 1 more source doesn't mean much, having 1 more aura does.
Taking aside the Blood Star composition, which is now in another thread, I'd have to now disagree with a major part of this hypothesis. Since your defense would be so high, the chances of being hit by a physical attack are very much lower, making elemental/poison/magic attack hits much more common. Those also trigger hitpowers, as you no doubt have seen yourself shoot Charged Bolts from armors when being hit by lightning attacks, yet they don't reduce armor durability, as you also know. So, I'd guess the armor would charge more frequently than you think.
If we actually did a study and found that it's still a bit risky, then I wouldn't have a problem agreeing. A Defiance Warrior is using Infinity to enhance fire attacks could allow you to safely use the polearm's Cyclone Armor charges to protect yourself even further, but I think that's a slightly different skill set-up.
Darker Realm
Diabloii.Net Member
We would have to try to test it out. Some things just cannot be described about on paper. This includes special builds, and in my well-thought opinion, Fire Golem. Only a field test or better, tried and proven technique in different situations can yield real-world results.
Darker Realm
Diabloii.Net Member
Still, you have misinterpreted me. The CtC on Bone is enough to replenish the Bone Armor on a sorceror, that attacks from range. However, the CtC will not be enough to go one-versus-all against a pack of Death Lords on a warrior. All my examples were using the case of surrounded by Death Lords or Doom Knights as case examples. Read my earlier posts in this context. If the armor cannot survive the rigors of close combat, it is not considered for use excluding ranged attacks.
So you're saying Bone-Brand build could work, but Oath/Bonehew/Breath of the Dying require you to place more than ten points into Bone Armor, as well as having it on right-click all the time? I'd think that means you'd be getting hit by physical attacks too much, so much that without fantastic hit recovery you'd constantly be in that animation.
I'll have to read this guide when you're finished, as it just leaves out far too many issues.
I'll have to read this guide when you're finished, as it just leaves out far too many issues.
Re: Is their any necrobuilds that can compete with one point wonders?
So, any luck on this? I'm about to start another Necromancer called 'Palebear,' that has the obvious gear variants. I can't remember whether it's possible to cast from this class's Summoning page while in Werebear, but I'm almost positive poison, bone, and curse skills are prohibited. So, with a hitpower synergy design relying on the items to cast spears, spirits, novas, and armors, it would seem logical that both skill sets are similar, if not the same. Hence, instead of making two builds, one will do if it uses ideal distribution and still allows the character to be used months down the road (when you'd normally get bored of it) by changing gear and bearing it up.
So, any luck on this? I'm about to start another Necromancer called 'Palebear,' that has the obvious gear variants. I can't remember whether it's possible to cast from this class's Summoning page while in Werebear, but I'm almost positive poison, bone, and curse skills are prohibited. So, with a hitpower synergy design relying on the items to cast spears, spirits, novas, and armors, it would seem logical that both skill sets are similar, if not the same. Hence, instead of making two builds, one will do if it uses ideal distribution and still allows the character to be used months down the road (when you'd normally get bored of it) by changing gear and bearing it up.
I didn't write that
The forum was either upgraded or a feature turned on since this thread was started, which - when using the quick reply feature - places the title of the thread in the post title line. I'm specifically talking about the hitpower/oskill abilities in the build mentioned before my posts. Perhaps, though, since I haven't posted in any non-trade sub-forum in almost three months (this thread included) it would be best to start a new topic about it, specifically.Just don't think of them as one point wonders, think of them as powerful options that make your build more flexible. A good necro has all 16 binds covered