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Is the Eaglehorn any good?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by Iroqouiz, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. Iroqouiz

    Iroqouiz IncGamers Member

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    Is the Eaglehorn any good?

    Hi guys!

    Found an Eaglehorn just the other day, and I wonder (since I'm not really an Amazon-player) if it's worth playing with?
     
  2. Sephiroth[TR]

    Sephiroth[TR] IncGamers Member

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    i think its a nice wepon. Reason i like it is cos of the ignore target defense.
    I dont have enough AR to hit enough in hell With WF so im using a eagle instead.
     
  3. C_Marfy

    C_Marfy IncGamers Member

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    If you can make up for the lack of IAS and knockback on it, it's a good bow. Wf is still king though.
     
  4. BloodAndRoses

    BloodAndRoses IncGamers Member

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    The damage on an Eaglehorn is also a problem, especially in Hell (and on Ladder). Unless you go the pure dexterity route (or you happen to have a dozen amazing jewels sitting around) it might take you a long time to kill anything, especially with more people in the game.
     
  5. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Eagle used to be a very good PvP bow too. Mainly since it was fairly easy to hit 8-frames Guided, it was kind of a solid combination of Damage and Speed.

    IMO, know a days it would best serve a Vamp Magezon (Frozen / Immolation Arrow). But then again there are better options there. Still, it's nice since the base damage is higher, and the ITD effect helps you with AR problems for a magezon.

    Knockback is easy, just Nef it. If you change your mind, Ohm it.

    It's also one of the better bows for other classes that is thinking about using a bow to snipe of opponents. Such as Shock Ranger or Sniper Viper, mainly because of the AR/ITD bonus.

    But if you go PvP with it, a WF / BotD Hydra Bow will beat you straight out... WF is banned in many leagues though, because of the knockback effect.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave IncGamers Member

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    grab a pair of crafted gloves with knockback and 20ias.....save the socket for a shael or ed/ias jewel
     
  7. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    That's, of course, another option :). If you're a bit more rich.
     
  8. Iroqouiz

    Iroqouiz IncGamers Member

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    What does Ignore Target's Defense really mean? Does it totally ignore their defense rating, or what?

    When, or if, I start an Amazon I might try this. I kept it because it was a Elite Unique and wanted to know if it was worth anything. :p
     
  9. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Yes. It only works in PvM though. It doesn't work against other players. When you have to make a proper AR check when hitting and that is the funny part with Eaglehorn. Because, even though it has ITD mod, it also as a +12 AR bonus per clvl. That can do wonders with your multishot. If you're sticking to guided arrows most of the time, the ITD mod is pretty useless for a zon, since guided arrow already has an ITD effect.

    The deal with Eagle is that it's reqs are lower than Windforce. And the Knockback on WF is usually banned or generally disliked in many Duelling Groups. Because Guided/Multi and Knockback is usually very hard to counter for a melee character. Not to mention that a Zon usually stings pretty hard either way...

    As I said, it's reqs are lower and you can therefore boost Dexterity much higher. 300+ is almost a must for a PvP/Balancezon.

    Most PvP zons are hybrid, btw. Meaning jav + shield switch. If that's the issue.

    Otherwise I'll stick to my comment above. Try eagle for vamp build. It's a pity to waste it on a purist guided + multi zon. Since Immolation and Frozen Arrow now has AR checks, it might help with a WF...
     
  10. Phresh

    Phresh IncGamers Member

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    its a good starter bow...but is slow frame rate and low damage keep it from being leet
     
  11. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    It isn't a low damage bow. Once you get some levels under your belt it adds quite a lot of max damage. And, for PvP, it's a wonder bow for it's price.

    Of course, ideal PvP bow would probably still be a Cruel Shadow Bow of Evisceration (rarified with some other mods on it). You need like 97% for 8-frames so you can really pump damage and life on you zon.

    For PvM, it would be just about any other bow, depending on play style and build.

    BotD would probably prove better with good stat bonus, ed and 60% IAS. But with 50% PN you better have good ping and a good computer because otherwise you will play in slow-motion.

    I still stand by my opinion with Eagle being a very good bow.

    It probably looses in an overall comparison with other bows, but at least it's not duped like the WF or the runes needed for BotD...
     
  12. Iroqouiz

    Iroqouiz IncGamers Member

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    Ok, thanks for the info Kaffe.

    Är du svensk? :)
     
  13. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Yep, I'm swedish. But according to every nordic/german player on B.net I'm their nationality. So I'm pretty fluent in German, Norweigan, Danish and a few other languages :p.

    I prefer to keep stuff at English around the boards and such. You can catch me online at *Kaffe or *KaffeKopp for a chat though :).
     
  14. BloodAndRoses

    BloodAndRoses IncGamers Member

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    An Eaglehorn has no innate increased attack speed though, which makes it a challenge to obtain 150% increased attack speed. (100% from armor, amulet, and gloves; 20% from bow; you'll need 30% from helm and belt.) It does give a +1 Amazon skills, which can be helpful. But even then a mediocre Cruel [0] speed bow would probably win over the Eaglehorn, unless your attack rating was really that bad.
     
  15. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Death's Hand + Sash = 30%

    Sigon's Belt + Boots = 30%

    See, not very hard at all. Goldwrap is also nice if you want some extra IAS...

    The max damage per clvl does wonder in the hands of a dexazon. Granted a Ward Bow or Shadow Bow is still ideal. Especially the Shadow Bow. They were really underrated in 1.09. Went for about the price of shopped cruels, at most. Funny, because they're statisticly better than wards and look cooler :).

    I mentioned a simple Eagle build in another thread, but here we go again...
    - 60% IAS armor (preferably with ED and Jeweler's of Whale/Stab.)
    - Jeweler's Helm (ed/ias)
    - Cat's (with ~70% critical I'm personally going to hit you if you use Highlord's...)
    - Death's Hand + Sash (CBF, 8%LL, etc, etc)
    - War Trav's (Aldur's / Sander's for FR/W. Rare/Crafted for FR/W or FHR)
    - 2 x Rings of almost any sort. Crafted/rare with massive stats, AR, res. etc, etc. 2 x Raven is cheap, 2 x Bul might work. 1 x SoJ for a small mana boost.
    - Ohm:ed Eagle

    Massive damage, more than enough speed. 155% IAS, massive ED from gear. High AR and all that. Granted, any bow would prove better. But if you don't want to spend 3 High Runes on a BotD Hydra/Crusade it's definetly worth it's price. And if you don't want to spend 10+ runes on the godliest GMB or Shadow Bow you can find it's also a cheap and godly bow... for it's price...

    On the other hand this build will lack PDR, +skills, +mana and deasant leech. Don't need much leech anymore though since it's either massive leech or basicly no leech. So it's not perfect. With a hybrid twist though, you should be able to get on a storm (in worst case, blackoak can prove much better) so you got some PDR there...
     
  16. BloodAndRoses

    BloodAndRoses IncGamers Member

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    But you have little to no flexibility in your equipment. My Windforce amazon is equipped similarly to that build you mentioned, except I can afford not to use gloves with increased attack speed. Plus, jewels with both increased attack speed and enhanced damage are prohibitively expensive, as is an Ohm rune. 50% enhanced damage on a bow isn't really worth it either, since none of the non-class bows goes above 39 average damage. 19 damage, isn't much unless amplified with 800 or so dexterity. (Well, say 500 dexterity, 160% enhanced damage from armor, and 120% enhanced damage from helm.)
     
  17. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Yep. It is very rigid. And yes all gear required is very expensive. But the max damage per lvl on Eagle, combined with the AR bonus makes a great Multishot. Few Cruels (even rare ones) can measure up to it.

    My ideal PvP zon now a days would probably be something like this (not for PvM though, BotD bows with a pack of 20 monsters dying at the same time, 10 x PSN nova ... frame rate killer ...)

    - BotD Crusader Bow (exactly the same average of a Hydra, lower max but higher min)
    - Enigma BP
    - 3 x ED/IAS Jeweler's <Prefered Headgear> of the Mammoth
    - Cat's Eye
    - War Trav's
    - Death's Hand + Sash
    - 2 x Nice Rings

    Of course, it's all exchangable. There can be a lot of tweaking done here. But it's a cheap way of getting that Teleport from Enigma. Enigma + Guided can work wonders. You may not teleport as a Necro, heck not even Druid. But it helps evade Melee. If all else fails this build safely provides roughly (or more) 100% FR/W from gear alone... saves a ton of charms...

    The reason why I don't like WF is because of the Knockback. There were words of them removing certain elements from PvP, such as Pierce and Slow. But it seems Slow remains and I assume Knockback does too.

    The thing is that a Zon with High AR Multi or a 8-7 frame guided and Knockback is virtually invulnerable to some melee characters.

    As I might have mentioned I duell(ed) in leagues and we try to keep rules. It's plain unfair to many melee characters to face either 100%+ FR/W and an target-seeking missile, as well as knockback.

    I'ld rather get a Cruel or Rare bow of sorts. Or stick to an Eagle... up:ed Goldstrike perhaps... But if we're talking pubbie duelling / no holds barreled there's nothing wrong with a WF. But one might want to consider getting knockback from gloves in that case...

    I'm really not a Zon player myself. I've just been studying 'em all throughout 1.09 because 95% of all duellers in Duellliga were zons, and those who weren't wanted to play zons. So I studied them for two reasons: A) Perhaps becoming one was the solution B) Know your enemy.
     
  18. DaemonX

    DaemonX IncGamers Member

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    Sorry I am not too clear - why does the +max on help with MS so much?
    At least, why is it preferential to a massive %ED?


    Also, in 110, KB is not even slightly broken in PvP.

    Even in places where enigma is banned, chargedins and 1-hit kill melees of other varieties, along with the general NERF of the zon in pvp mean that she needs advantages where she can get them.

    Since GA doesn't pierce, its KB effect is reduced consumately.

    Also, KB itself seems to work rarely more than 25% in 110 PvP.
     
  19. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    It's not the max that help, but the 12 AR per lvl that helps multishot. Also, a massive ED isn't preferable if you don't have a max to work on. You can however, go with a Diamond Bow and pump minimal damage along with ED. It should end up at a consistent average and very respectable damage.

    I'm not the one to argue with rules. Mainly because I violate them from time to time. Usually in the shape of 5% extra PDR or equipping the horrid Dracul's.

    Either way, Knockback is totally banned from Euro-PvP (where I plan to continue my duelling as soon as my new dueller is up. So no Knockback there.

    Besides, if we're talking Bows I'ld pick Eagle over WF anyday for PvP. The lesser requirements for a Crusader saves a lot of strength that could go into Dexterity.
     

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