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Is my nec gonna get punked later in hell

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Ironcarrotfounderson, Feb 28, 2004.

  1. Ironcarrotfounderson

    Ironcarrotfounderson IncGamers Member

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    Is my nec gonna get punked later in hell

    I followed the great summoner guides and enjoyed it the most of any char i have played. But I have noticed lots of disparaging remarks made against sumnecs. It seems they are no good in the late game.

    Lev 70
    Strength 131 for armour
    dex base
    vit 220
    energy 70

    I have maxed mastery, skelly and mage put one point in whole of curses rest of skele tree and a few in corpse explosion.
    So thats 10 skelles, 8 mages, 4 revives, 1 point in each golem boosted by skills+ making up the difference along with a might merc lev 65 .


    My heltmet and armour are magic finders (ptopazs so about 160%), Basic ralorttal shield and a nice +1 wand and amulet. Can I preceed with this char finding odd useful items, it took all game to find one +skills item of worth so I wont hold my breath.
     
  2. Growlor

    Growlor IncGamers Member

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    Wait till it comes time to take on Diablo in Hell diff

    and they are begging you to come help them! Sure we may not have as much firepower as some chars, but a necro leading a flock of skeles, skele mages, might merc, clay golem, curses and revived abyss knights is NOT someone to dork with!

    Growlor
     
  3. DonieDarko

    DonieDarko IncGamers Member

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    Add some points to Bone Spear and and Bone spirit (Magical Damage cann't be blocked , used for physical immuse minions, 20Bspear + 20 Bspirit ,Damage is 474-503 for Bspear , 768-833 for Bspirit ) use to kill boss ( skeletons always died incrediably fast when you face the boss)
    Use White wand (Dol+Io) 2 socket wand
    Hit Causes Monster To Flee 25%
    +10 to Vitality
    +3 To Poison And Bone Skills
    +3 To Bone Armor
    +2 to Bone Spear
    +4 To Skeleton Mastery
    Magic Damage Reduced by 4
    20% Faster Cast Rate
    +13 To Mana
    Massive Synergies for Bone skills and +4 to Skeleton Mastery ,20 Faster Cast Rate makes the wand presious for Nec.

    Other choice :
    Marrowwalk ( if you use it , don't add points in Bone prison)
    It is not recommanded in duel ,but if you want to solo hell , it will be a good idea. +33 bone prison (18 charged ) will gives benifit to the Bone skills you added , especially it can save you skill points.

    Now you don't need to sit there and watch you skeletons fight for you , left hand side bone spirit, right hand side curses . Enjoy the game! :lol:
     
  4. Ironcarrotfounderson

    Ironcarrotfounderson IncGamers Member

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    Thanks don i think i would use this build for my next mancer but i have 10 mages to do the immunes in i was thinking that i am to far in to get some good damage levels thinking more about pumping minions, I think my current build may work on low levels but what about high ones
     
  5. Ifrit18

    Ifrit18 Banned

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    What slvl raise skele and mastery?

    make sure your using amp dmg :).
     
  6. Ironcarrotfounderson

    Ironcarrotfounderson IncGamers Member

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    indeed! kill one then blow them all up
     
  7. Æ’enris

    Æ’enris Banned

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    That's total bull.
    My skellymancer (HCL, lvl 80) made it through hell, and his best item was a 29 vipermagi off norm baal (until I managed to trade for a leoric), his mojo circlet of teleportation was niceeeeee.
    Amp normal monsters, decrep/clay golem bosses, get a might merc (mine used meat scraper lochaber axe ^^)

    Edit: oh and, corpse explosion is GREAT for speeding up the killing, skelly are a bit slow at killing large mobs.
     
  8. Ironcarrotfounderson

    Ironcarrotfounderson IncGamers Member

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    Which part is total bull mate, and thanks for the confience boost high lev items are a pain to come by and doing 1 million mf runs just seems tedious and I think Im doing everthing right
     
  9. Ifrit18

    Ifrit18 Banned

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    You should have zero problems with your build. Use amp dmg on everything. Let the skele warriors, mages, golem, and merc handle everything while you go grab a snack :king:.
     
  10. jmprockstar

    jmprockstar IncGamers Member

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    It seems to me it's too late and unnecessary to transform this summoner into a bone/summoner hybrid that Darko recommended. Go with Fenris on this one.

    Also, while summoners are some of the least gear-dependent characters in DII, you might want to have some armor and a helmet that isn't just for magic finding. Fenris mentioned the Skin of the Vipermage (unique Serpentskin, if I recall), which has skills, resistances, and faster cast rate. I've been using mine since I traded for it (I've never come close to being able to afford an Engima) Also, if you're strapped, get a Spirit Shroud, which is really easy to find, or even use Stealth runeword (TalEth)--although these two options lack any resistances.

    A good helmet for a summoner can range from the expensve (Shako, Andy's Visage, Delirium runeword) to the reasonable (Peasant Crown, rare circlet, Lore runeword [a personal favorite for when I'm broke]). Getting some +skills in there will make a huge difference, especially if you can get a few more (and more powerful) minions out of it.

    Also,as alluded to in the armor, try to get decent resistances. Ancient's Pledge is a good start, but you'll need more than that to get out of the red zone.

    Finally, check wand merchants for decent wands. You never know when you might find that two socketed bone wand with +3 to SM, +3 to SW.
     
  11. DonieDarko

    DonieDarko IncGamers Member

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    I totally agree with Jmprockstar, if you are too late to tansform into Sum/Bonemancer, just keep add point into SummerTree , Use good Armor and Wands , oftenly use curse to help your skelly army. It won't be difficult to solo Hell . I have a 84 Nec on bn and it can deal almost all the monsters (except Baal ) . And it's easy to make a team with other guys .(Summancer is always welcomed ) . :buddies:
     
  12. Cerebron

    Cerebron IncGamers Member

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    As a suggestion or as a warning, at this point NEVER PUT ONE SINGLE POINT INTO THE BONE TREE (Spear + Spirit). Bone Armor is good, though. The Bone Tree should be all-or-none. Pouring 20 points into the Bone Tree would give you pathetically pathetic damage. I did and it made me create a new character. You would wish you could get those points back. 20 points into the Bone Tree yields something that takes you 15 Bone Spirits to kill one Hell Monsters. If you are in a party it's even more sad.

    I'm wondering how come no one mentioned corpse explosion. Many people hate CE because it's simple, stupid, and POWERFUL. 3 consecutive CE's lead to synchronized death of all monsters in the radius. I highly recommend it.
     
  13. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    This is your opinion Cerebron and you are wrong.

    A Bone Spell and Summoner Hybrid is perfectly possible and much more interesting to play than a vanilla summoner with maxed CE. My original Necro is now level 90 and has maxed SW, SM with 1 point in fire golem and 1 in Revive, at least 1 in all curses and the rest into the Bone spells.

    The 1050 point BS I get may not seem much compared to a specialised Bonemancers 4000 point one (or whatever they get) but then again they dont have a full army of skellies out in front. I find having a bone spirit on the left mouse key a great way to help finish off a troublesome boss or champion. Also pure summoners can have trouble killing Baal, where my Necro just makes sure to pick up several of the mana potions left after you kill the 5 waves in the Throne of Destruction and I get to blast away 100 BS or so to speed up the killing process.

    Remember, although many people say max CE that is only any use when you already have a corpse or two... so it just speeds up the killing when you can already handle the situation. But when you go to a new area and you have to make some corpses or if you fighting an End of Act Boss there are no corpses ... and a good BS is one way to do that. CE is good to speed up magic finding in the Pit or other areas with many small monsters but is much less useful for magic finding against bosses. I have only one point in CE yet my Necro can romp the Hell Cows using Revives to back up his Skellies, admitedly more points in CE would help speed things up a bit but I find that using 4 CE to clear a Cow pack is not that much different to using 2 CE if it were maxed.

    Incidently, a major byproduct of investing in the Bone tree is the very strong Bone Armour you can get, without using Marrowwalks. My old Necro has a very nice 295 BA from about 16 invested points in Bone Prison and that has saved his life many times.
     
  14. jmprockstar

    jmprockstar IncGamers Member

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    This thread is rapidly turning away from the question originally posed. Cerebron may be wrong about the bone/summoner hybrid (I think he is, but I haven't played one yet to find out for myself). However, JoJeck, you would agree that the few skill points that Ironcarrot has left would be better spent in filling out his "vanilla" summoner army than placing them in the extremely synergy dependent bone skills, right? He's level 70, so, if he is having trouble in hell, he won't level very quickly, and all he has is 1 point in bone spear? That's a waste.

    Anyway, perhaps twenty or thirty levels ago, the Darko/JoJeck approach would have been great. I have been tossing around the idea of starting a new bone/summoner hybrid because of the very problem JoJeck mentioned: the amount of time it takes to kill Baal. Really, the other act bosses aren't that bad. Actually, Andariel, Mephisto, and Diablo have a few corpses lying around next to them for you to kill and explode if you can finesse it--especially Andariel, who even can have some unique monsters running around in her throneroom. CE only really doesn't do the job with Duriel, who you can't run, and Baal, who you will run all the time once you can. That's when the bone spell will show their greatest utility.

    Which leads me to Cerebron's point about using CE in general. Fenris already touched on this, and I thought his point was obvious enough.

    "Edit: oh and, corpse explosion is GREAT for speeding up the killing, skelly are a bit slow at killing large mobs."

    Perhaps a little more explanation is due. Put ~five skill points in Corpse Explosion and let +skills do the rest. In Hell, you will make liberal use of Amp + CE to get through Immune to Physical monsters, and to get through large packs very quickly. If you can get decent enough mana (charms are best) and mana regeneration (off of a Homunculus, for instance), then you can get away with CE'ing all the time. I use CE to get rid of those annoying resurrection monsters like Devilkin.

    Anyway, I thought I'd try to bring the good ideas in JoJeck's tangent into Ironcarrot's originaly question. Hope I succeeded! :drool:
     
  15. Ironcarrotfounderson

    Ironcarrotfounderson IncGamers Member

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    plzzzzz (i jest) no heat in my thread, if you think someone is wrong do not bash them for it or even post since i dislike disparaging remarks intensely.

    All the adivce is great is I start again with a nec it will be a duel but right now im utterly dependatnt on my minions and thats no so bad just slow. in fact i just need a durance waypoint and im on the 4 th act. I will be putting on in posion nova in 2 levs time to cut down regen of life that is a pain. Izuel is my savior.

    I meant dual of course my nec can kill precisely **** on his own but at lev 60 i was doing better than my enhanced lev 80 sorc. Necs rule that is all.
     
  16. DrMagus

    DrMagus IncGamers Member

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    skele lag?

    Hi everyone,
    I am enjoying reading about how to have more fun with me summon necro (level 78) but I have heard many comments from other players in baal runs that I am unwelcome :grrr: because I "cause" lag. Have you heard this? Is it true? Do my beautiful skeles make the game run slow?
    Thanks
     
  17. Dodgy_geezah

    Dodgy_geezah IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, they complain, they whine, then I summon revives, more and more untill they can't see their mouse pointer.
    Fudge 'em that's what I say! Fudge them all! My best memory so far was chasing a lvl 45 pally around the blood moor with 12 skellys. Hey, he hostiled me... what's a guy to do?
    You should see the lag when there's 7 sorcs in a baalrun. Or a fury-zon. They have no right to piss and moan at all IMO.
     
  18. jmprockstar

    jmprockstar IncGamers Member

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  19. DonieDarko

    DonieDarko IncGamers Member

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    No, summancers are welcomed .Some guys said it cause lag, that was bull .
    My summancer works well with paladin and Barbarian on the bn . Don't warry about it , practical will tell the truth .
     
  20. Peacrusher

    Peacrusher IncGamers Member

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    I will say this simply.... A pure summoner with full skelli army like yours should have no problem with any type of monsters.

    Amp Phys immunes.
    any other immunes are irrellevent.. as skelli warriors will take them down. I recommend maxing CE. but other's don't. Your Choice... I personally like the improved radius as I take whole mobs with 1-3 CE's.

    Revives... Much debate here. I would put points here last. They make good meat shields, but are dumb and don't tele to be next to you so you tend to lose them. If you fighting alot of phys immunes, I recommend reviving magic casting monsters. (gloams, hell witches, serpent magus, etc.)

    Amp I would invest a few points here to increase your radius (I know others don't like that)

    Dim vision is a must when dealing with gloams... My dim is currently lvl 12 (with items) and I spent points here too late. Dim will shut down gloams and your skellies will swarm them switching them from ranged attack to melee... then they are toast.

    I haven't invested a single point inthe p/b skill tree beyond CE. IMO its not nessecary. Mercs can get your first corpse.

    MF is sooo easy with a summoner. I am lucky and have found many +skill items, but I still maintain around 400 MF will decent +skills to skellies. the key is to prebuff them. Get as many +skills items and then raise your army. Switch to mf, your skellies will lose a little but their damage rating will remain intact.

    BTW. There is only one part of the game that Summoners struggle, and it is NOT in hell. Oddly enough, NORM diablo is the biggest pain in the arse in the whole game. After that, everything else is easy.

    Good Luck. and if you play on east your welcome to join me. check the eastie forum for more details.....
     

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