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Is it murder?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by zodiac66, Mar 12, 2004.

  1. zodiac66

    zodiac66 IncGamers Member

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    Is it murder?

    http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/8164008.htm

    I honestly don't know what to feel about this. Part of me says she is guilty. Part of me says her mental illness contributed to her decision. I am a tad more swayed towards the guilty aspect though.
     
  2. dorcusmalorcus

    dorcusmalorcus IncGamers Member

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    I've been following this in the news. It's a travesty regardless of the outcome. I don't know if they can make the murder charge stick, but I would bet that a charge of negligent homicide could be upheld.

    I'm glad that relatives took the surviving child, but it saddens me that they wouldn't step forward and declare her mentally incompetent before this happened. If they knew of her mental state, why not have her declared incompetent and the get the courts to impose the necessary steps to save the babies.

    Really makes me sad.
     
  3. Fallen_62

    Fallen_62 IncGamers Member

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    im not sure about murder, but certifiable might fit the bill... i cant immagine any1 i know saying that they would rather have their babies die instead of having a c-section to deliver them...

    my $.02
     
  4. Choogy

    Choogy IncGamers Member

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    Yea...I read about this...
    Negligent Homicide for sure i say, but I think she needs treatment or something too, she seemed paranoid about sugery...
     
  5. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    For once I'm not touching this one with a 20 foot clown pole. Way too complicated a case. I'd hate to be the judge sitting in on this one.
     
  6. cleanupguy

    cleanupguy IncGamers Member

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    As unfortunate as it might be, this case has to be thrown out of court. If she is found guilty, we are opening a whole can of worms that we should not be dealing with.
     
  7. tarnok

    tarnok IncGamers Member

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    The question, of course, will become "If this is wrong then why is abortion alright?"
     
  8. MixedVariety

    MixedVariety Banned

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    I really don't know. Her reasons for the 'murder' are pretty superfluous and shallow, but then again she's supposedly a nut.
    If the baby would have lived, and healthily, without endangering the mother beyond a cosmetic scar, then perhaps murder it is, mental illness notwithstanding.
     
  9. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

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    Um, how can they charge her with murder?

    They could have stabbed it in the head as it came out, and it would have been a "partial birth abortion", but suddenly when it's stillborn, it's murder?

    Make no sense . . . :scratch:
     
  10. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    this ain't just a can of worms, it's a whole truckload of canned worms. (I'll take mine in light syrup please)

    If she's convicted this effectively destroys the right to abortion. You cannot say that it's illegal to allow an unborn child to die of natural causes and yet say it's perfectly OK for you to willfully go to a doctor and deliberately have the unborn child killed and discarded.

    This also will lead to other problems. What if the gov't decides to charge a woman for not taking prenatal pills? Or what if they decide that they'll charge any woman who doesn't eat a gov't approved diet?

    What next? Charging women for living in polluted cities? You can easily find a scientist willing to take money to testify that airborne pollutants harm an unborn child. It's not that far of a leap going from breathing brown air to breathing brown air is the same as smoking.

    Then what? A woman drives a small car, gets hit and loses the child. Will she be charged with murder for not driving a "safe" vehicle? How far can this be taken? If you don't think they can run with this, you're wrong. It wasn't all that long ago that smoking in planes was banned. Now it's been banned in bars. Think about it.
     
  11. cleanupguy

    cleanupguy IncGamers Member

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    OMG. I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with Freemason however scary as it may sound. Brrrrr....
     
  12. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    cleanupguy: "Hello, Hell? Is it snowing there"

    Hell: "Yes"

    cleanupguy: "OK, just checking. Thanks"
     
  13. swami

    swami Banned

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    I hear bells tolling, the end of the universe is nigh, Gigli is being broadcast on all channels at all times, omg omg omg !!!111onetwothree444
     
  14. zodiac66

    zodiac66 IncGamers Member

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    I don't think that this could be considered a partial birth abortion. The fetus was stillborn because the mother neglected medical advice. Big difference between stabbing a fetus in the head at 30 weeks and one that is term.

    I will be interested in seeing how this pans out.
     
  15. bigD72

    bigD72 IncGamers Member

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    The answer is pro-choice or not?

    But then again, maybe not so simply.

    Abortion happens in earlier stages of pregnancy therefore effictively killing part of the woman, not a living being, but if its during or after birth the baby is developed enough to where it is considered a human, thus killing it would be murder. However, in this case it would have damage the woman, even if not killed her. Therefore becoming similar to a question once posed to me and probably others.

    You have a car with all your money and life savings in it after liquidating all of your possesions, it stalls out on train tracks. You notice a boy stuck in the train tracks also. A train is now coming, you can save your car with everything in it or the boy, which do you choose?
     
  16. Draconis

    Draconis IncGamers Member

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    The day that refusing a major, invasive, potentially dangerous surgical procedure can get you convicted of murder will be a sad, sad day indeed.
     
  17. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    Once the union of egg and sperm occurs, the resulting zygote is undeniably human and alive. That is not at issue when it comes to the legality of abortion.

    Smeg, I fail to see how her conviction would affect abortion in ANY way, since Roe v Wade allowed for State's to regulate abortion later in pregnancy, which was later refined by Planned Parenthood v Casey.

    This is a very interesting case, however. Although not religiously influenced, I see a corrolation between this case and the Jehovahs Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists who are against blood transfusions for them and their children, and others who are against medical treatment of any kind. Is it her right to keep the state from operating on her? It is an accepted right to deny medical treatment. The fact that there is no action on the mother's part to hurt the baby is what makes this case difficult.
     

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