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Is Concentrate a viable option vs WW for pvp?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Chia, Mar 31, 2005.

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  1. Chia

    Chia IncGamers Member

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    Is Concentrate a viable option vs WW for pvp?

    This may be a silly question, but I'm going to ask anyways. Does concentrate have a chance against a ww barb? I read a few of the articles and noticed that concentrate will have a much higher damage as well as a great boost to defense. Best of all, its not a mana burn like ww. I would appreciate any input. Thanks.
     
  2. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    WW is way superior to Concentrate...Concentrate is very slow and WW is superior to most melee attacks because it's more flexible. I haven't PvP'ed myself but "everyone" says that WW is superior so go with that. Also you don't need to make 2 separate threads, one will suffice...
     
  3. Chia

    Chia IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the help. Thats what I thought, just making sure.
     
  4. ADSL

    ADSL IncGamers Member

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    I believe conc is the most underrated bvb skill there is.
    True it doesnt do as much dmg as zerk, but i still believe that 9 times of 10 a good conc barb will beat a similar good zerker.

    vs ww you need abit of luck and good ar, basicly a wwer will never hit you, ww has very low AR, even with angelics they would have less than 30% to hit. and you should have max block.

    its even better vs melee druids, i dont think any 2handed fury druid will beat a good conc barb.


    note: i only pvp in hardcore, so yes i use potions, but i dont really think it should affect the outcome of a MELEE duel much.
    my lvl 59 conc barb havent lost a duel yet, and i duel all barbs and druids below lvl 73.
    I even beat a lvl 94 ww barb with 414% botd ba ( i had no clue he was so good geared). He almost killed me a few times, and i was pretty close to getting him, and i wasnt prebuffed with my bo skillers.
    if i knew he was that good i probaly wouldnt have fought the duel, as in the end he would probaly have a higher chance of killing me, than i had killing him. but he ran out of pots and didnt whisp me later as i told him to.
     
  5. Zangeif

    Zangeif IncGamers Member

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    Conc beats zerk easily, ww beatz both conc and zerk easily.
     
  6. mcm

    mcm Banned

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    That is truely awesome, considering the conc user has hmm 30k+ def, and the zerk user has what.. ZERO!?!?!?

    Hrm lets see.. lvl 90 vs lvl 90 (i.e., same clvl) and 25k AR on WW barb (trivial w/ decent gear) means you need 58333 def to result in a 30% chance of being hit. No. I don't think so.

    Some more quick math.. WW attacks at 4 frames, conc at 9. Even IF you have a 30% chance of being attacked, with 75% block (7.5% chance of being hit) and your opponent has say a 60% chance of being hit (a conservative estimate, it's more likely to be 45-50%), with 75% block (15% chance of being hit) in 36 frames (academic figure, for simplification of the example) the ww barb is hitting 0.675 times, and the conc barb only 0.6.

    That, ignoring the fact that WW attacks while moving away, whereas conc cannot.

    Healing affecting the outcome of a duel? Nawww....

    Naturally, he'd be dead...

    Perhaps he wasn't eating purple pots by the fist full...

    SHOW US THE EAR BIG TALKER.

    Sorry but I have a REAL hard time believing your level 59 conc barb beat a level 94 ww barb in hardcore. Make up some more lies pls.
     
  7. ADSL

    ADSL IncGamers Member

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    First off its far from imposible to get 50 k defence on a lvl 90 conc barb. secondly 25k AR, a more exact number would probaly 15k you do the math again.




    Yeah thats why i made a note about.


    Not all hc duels end up with one being killed you know?

    i never claimed to have his ear, but he used up his potions before i did, and he left, ei i win. if you knew anything about hardcore duelling you would know thats also a win.
    I dont really care if you believe me, but i beat him. deal with it.



    also back to the real question in the thread. conc vs ww. yeah i agree ww is the better skill for softcore duelling. but i dont agree that conc vs ww is a completly onsided duel, like ww vs zerk is.
     
  8. mcm

    mcm Banned

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    So while you talk about the average conc barb having 50k defence, you won't accept a WW barb having more than 15k AR? HUH? 25k AR is STANDARD for a WW barb, nevermind an apples to apples comparison with an obviously top geared conc barb w/ 50k def.

    First you say pots dont affect the outcome of a duel, then you say you effectively won BECAUSE of pots. Wanna make up your mind on that one Mr Hardcore Dueler?

    But what you really said was:

    Yes you "beat" a level 94 ww barb with a level 59 conc barb where "beat" is defined by you as "ran out of pots last"... I'm such a "retard" for disbelieving you... Thanks for the edit, pity it emailed me the original post...

    Too bad, it is. You're trying to make the argument that conc is better or at least as good as ww by using the sole anecdote of you out-potting someone. That's not a valid comparison of builds, characters, or skills, PERIOD.
     
  9. ADSL

    ADSL IncGamers Member

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    I dont agree that 25k AR is standard. and yet, i agree that its posible, like you agree that 50k defense is posible. so i guess we established that my first "guess" with 30% to hit isnt so bad now is it?


    this really makes no sence at all.
    i won the duel vs him because he ran out of pots, if we didnt use pots i would still have inflicted more dmg and in the end probaly won.
    this is ofcourse not a exact sience since i dont know how many pots he used, and when he drank them.


    Yes i called you a retard, beause i dont like being called a liar. i decided to edit it based on i dont remember you being such a prick in your other posts. i thought maybe i just didnt completly understand what you where getting at or maybe put too much weight in your words.


    I never claimed that conc was superior to ww, but i claimed it is a underrated skill in bvb/barb vs druid duels.
    And you cant posible be serious saying that conc vs ww is as onesided as zerk vs ww.
    Also my example of me beating a lvl 94 ww barb, wasnt meant as a sole arguement, infact it wasnt really in my arguement. you cant blame me for being proud of my win. maybe i should just keep those stories in the hardcore forum where we dont have people like you trying to ruin everyones day.

    on a final note; my guess is that you read my post saw i was a hardcore dueller with high thought of myself, and decided that you had something to proof?
    Maybe you have some hatred to hardcore duellers because alot of us consider us better or superior than softcore duellers?
    actually dont answer that here i think we should take the rest of this to pms as it has little to do with the thread.
     
  10. xpumafangx

    xpumafangx IncGamers Member

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    Wait from reading all this, I would like to say a number of things.

    MCM :thumbsup:

    ADSL Ok Ya it wasn't right of MCM to hurt your feelings by calling you a liar. But if you where in mcm shoes wouldn't you think that a 54 vs 90 any thing would loose out right... So seeing some one say the opposit well wouldn't you as well want, a little proof. I wont say you didn't beat that level 90 some thing. But I will say, "what ever." Also I have well over 20k attack ratting, and it is the standard. Well if you are fighting a caster or people with low def you wouldn't need so much. And from fighting zealots with 50k def with my barb I still won 3 out of 3.
     
  11. ADSL

    ADSL IncGamers Member

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    atleast someone was able to express themself without a personal attack even if one does not agree.

    basicly, my whole point of me posting in this thread, was conc is a underrated skill in melee duels.
    imo it has been overlooked since the eth bug was discovered and never really came up as good melee pvp skill after 1.10 came.

    Even zerk is considered a good pvp skill. and i think in alot of fights conc is way better than zerk.
    ei conc vs zerk, barb vs fury/maul druids and i guess also in zealot vs zerk/conc?

    I am not sure if i didnt make that clear enough or MCM just chose to ignore that due to reason unknown to me.
     
  12. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    u know, with 2x angelics, my ww barb gets 30k AR. 15k please.
    i dont think ur hardcore duels are a good comparision of ww vs conc since healing pots were used and a majority of the duelers use chicken and stuff like that.

    hell if i used juvs everytime i dueled, id never lose.
    btw can conc barbs get that much def? if they did wont they need like gvalor and garreats? in which case they would sux cause duress > valor ez.
     
  13. mcm

    mcm Banned

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    50k defense is *POSSIBLE*, 25k AR is *STANDARD*. The kind of sacrifices you make to get 50k def are crippling, you'd be better off with 35k def and doing 30-40% more damage or having 30-40% more AR yourself. 30% chance to hit is NOT a realistic average unless you pair a s-house attacker vs a defense-at-all-costs oriented build.

    Forget about "exact sience" [sic], it's a complete and utter RUBBISH comparison you're making.

    Thank you for capitulating the point though.

    No, you edited it because you were afraid to be banned.
    I am ALWAYS a prick to stupid people. I don't like them.

    Given equal skill & items, conc is OVERRATED vs ww.

    A quick look at the dueling populations in HC vs SC will answer that. But even ignoring that, eating rejuvs when your life approaches 30% and running for town at the slightest hint of danger isn't my idea of "superior", either.

    See the thread title? Who gives a crap if conc can beat zerk (IMAGINE THAT!!) or a druid/paladin skill. We're talking about Conc vs WW, and I'm sorry but the sooner you accept the truth that Conc blows ass versus WW, the better off you'll be. I'm here to help you buddy. We'll get you through your dillusion, it'll be allll better sooon.
     
  14. ADSL

    ADSL IncGamers Member

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    This time ill leave out the quotes as it seems like putting too much work into it when you refuse you see what i really tried to point out.
    But

    No i didnt edit my post out of fear of getting banned.

    I dont see how you can call me stupid, imo you just havent understood what i was trying to say.

    hc vs sc is a dead debate, if you noticed i didnt say i that hc duelling is superior to sc, i said that maybe you decided to take that agressive stance against me because you saw i was a hc dueller?
    like you say, the number of ppl playing each side shows that softcore is way more popular.


    i guess i moved out of my area when i left my belowed hc forum when i came here, i guess ill move back to where ppl can debate things without talking down to or calling persons are liar.
    and apprently you have another set of rules here, just because i didnt kept my post 100% to the question, its completly useless now?

    If the thread starter had questions to conc vs ww, i think its a reasonable assumption that he might want some other info, after Chimaira pointed out that ww is better than conc in the matchup.
     
  15. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    Stop.

    -Hal
     
  16. Ichthyoid

    Ichthyoid IncGamers Member

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    lol, yes, please stop. i think ADSL was just trying to say conc barbs are are viable build against ww barbs, and that was it. i don't think i read anywhere in his post that said conc barbs are better, nor ww barbs stunk. so, yes, please stop.
     
  17. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    the reason mcm firmly disagrees with you is not because you play hc, but because you are making an inaccurate comparision of ww vs conc by comparing duels involving the use of healing/juv pots. Basically you're experience in dueling ww with conc is irrelevant; yes pots make that big of a difference.
    yes you can give input on anything you want, but please realize that you're incorrect in you're comparision because of the nature of HC duels.

    also, conc is not a viable build vs ww, with equal gear/lvl/etc, ww will almost always win.
     
  18. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    Hmm..Nice thread. :uhhuh:

    Threads like these keep the forum alive.GJ :thumbsup:

    PLEASE CONTINUE. :flip:

    Rik
    -----------------------------
    P.S:Anyone got perfect wartravs on east ladder for safekeeping?
     
  19. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    yep.
    better than threads like "how do i make bvc barb?"
    anyways the only barb skill viable vs ww is ww :p
     
  20. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    Then what are you trying to say? To me the following statements are nothing but lies:
    My 13k ar non-block barb has no problems vs 60k+ def zealots. Concentrators are pathetic in comparision. And yes, 25k ar is standard for any wwbarb with angelics. You get 16k easily with 2x ravens.

    Then you bring up the following completely irrelevant arguments for conc:
    This has nothing to do with anything since a 3-year old can figure out the same. It's like saying that a level 90 char will beat a level 30 char...

    Or maybe he took his "agressive stance" because you lie and disillusionate people, be it by purpose or not.

    No, it's useless since you give inaccurate information to people who dont know better.
     
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