Is Cham any good fo rpally?

Zigot_HD

Diabloii.Net Member
Is Cham any good fo rpally?

Hi, hehe i just found a cham during a run with my hammerdin. My first rare rune find! ;)

the question is :
- is it worth to socket the armor for can't be frozen ? ( i think it sound like a waste of a rare rune, because i 'm using a Ravenfrost already )
- Socket a weapon for freeze target ? ( I also play avenger and zealot )
- Any trade value ? ( i need a lot of pally gear : hoz, heaven light, arachnid etc.. )

Thx
 

Vindi66

Banned
Zigot_HD said:
Hi, hehe i just found a cham during a run with my hammerdin. My first rare rune find! ;)

the question is :
- is it worth to socket the armor for can't be frozen ? ( i think it sound like a waste of a rare rune, because i 'm using a Ravenfrost already )
- Socket a weapon for freeze target ? ( I also play avenger and zealot )
- Any trade value ? ( i need a lot of pally gear : hoz, heaven light, arachnid etc.. )

Thx

Trade value for cham is good but it is also good for a socket in armor or helm because then you can lose raven and get another +1 skill (SOJ or BK ring).
 

Shadoway

Diabloii.Net Member
If you are a super-duper, go ahead with anything---like triple zod wirt's leg. If the Cham is legitly found by yourself, socket it in an armor is the most stupid thing I can imagine.

Compare ravenfrost with SoJ/BK+Cham:
Raven advantage:
1) save a socket, which can be very useful (ed/ias, ed/-req, resist, life, etc...)
2) save a Cham
3) good dex/AR and cold dmg

Raven disadvantage:
no +skill
no +life/mana (which can be compensated by the raven's +dex)

It looks quite obvious to me.
 

Kevlar

Diabloii.Net Member
Shadoway said:
If you are a super-duper, go ahead with anything---like triple zod wirt's leg. If the Cham is legitly found by yourself, socket it in an armor is the most stupid thing I can imagine.

Compare ravenfrost with SoJ/BK+Cham:
Raven advantage:
1) save a socket, which can be very useful (ed/ias, ed/-req, resist, life, etc...)
2) save a Cham
3) good dex/AR and cold dmg

Raven disadvantage:
no +skill
no +life/mana (which can be compensated by the raven's +dex)

It looks quite obvious to me.
It's not that obvious.

he is a hammerdin, and so, in theory, doesn't need AR. It all depends on the build/type of character. For a hammerdin, cham on armor/helm/shield is much better than ravenfrost, since allows to have a extra skill slot with mana boost ( thinking in a soj).

Besides, even for a non hammerdin it all depends on the rings you own/have. Me, for example, ditched ravenfrost for a 8% LL 14 dex 13 str 47%LR 45%FR rare ring, what means 27 stat points saved, Life leech and major Fire and light resist versus CBF of raven frost, the cold damage/absorv , that per si is almost worthless out of the pvp scene.

So, my advise, is : the cham for the cannot be frozen is a good option in situations where you have better rings than raven and/or need/value the skill slot more.
 

Vindi66

Banned
Shadoway said:
If you are a super-duper, go ahead with anything---like triple zod wirt's leg. If the Cham is legitly found by yourself, socket it in an armor is the most stupid thing I can imagine.

Compare ravenfrost with SoJ/BK+Cham:
Raven advantage:
1) save a socket, which can be very useful (ed/ias, ed/-req, resist, life, etc...)
2) save a Cham
3) good dex/AR and cold dmg

Raven disadvantage:
no +skill
no +life/mana (which can be compensated by the raven's +dex)

It looks quite obvious to me.
Not really obvious. Is it possible to get a rune or jewel with +1 skill like you can get from a ring?? Don't think so. So for some builds (V/T, Hammerdin) 1 skill is well worth it. Most people only use raven for the CBF anyway. You can get better AR from other rings than a raven.
 

Zigot_HD

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, i play hammerdin, zealot and avenger. So socketting cham into an armor is not what i intent to do. I'd rather trade it for pally gear i need ( arachnid/hoz/soj etc.. )
My Zealot/ avenger all need the AR from Raven.
What is the trading value of a Cham ? Or what coudl it get me?
 

Vindi66

Banned
Zigot_HD said:
Well, i play hammerdin, zealot and avenger. So socketting cham into an armor is not what i intent to do. I'd rather trade it for pally gear i need ( arachnid/hoz/soj etc.. )
My Zealot/ avenger all need the AR from Raven.
What is the trading value of a Cham ? Or what coudl it get me?

Go to the trade forum.
 

Shadoway

Diabloii.Net Member
Kevlar said:
It's not that obvious.

he is a hammerdin, and so, in theory, doesn't need AR. It all depends on the build/type of character. For a hammerdin, cham on armor/helm/shield is much better than ravenfrost, since allows to have a extra skill slot with mana boost ( thinking in a soj).

Besides, even for a non hammerdin it all depends on the rings you own/have. Me, for example, ditched ravenfrost for a 8% LL 14 dex 13 str 47%LR 45%FR rare ring, what means 27 stat points saved, Life leech and major Fire and light resist versus CBF of raven frost, the cold damage/absorv , that per si is almost worthless out of the pvp scene.

So, my advise, is : the cham for the cannot be frozen is a good option in situations where you have better rings than raven and/or need/value the skill slot more.

Well, I have already stated "if you are a super-duper, go ahead with anything---like triple zod wirt's leg."

For someone who plays legit and deciding on a self-found cham, my advise is "the cham for the cannot be frozen is a poor option in any situation" because you are not going to find another cham anytime soon.
 

Satanic Ecstacy

Diabloii.Net Member
When your hammers do 11-13k damage, 1 extra skill on the SoJ or BK won't make a difference. You won't notice it at all.
Also, Cham doesn't give cold absorb, so a raven is more flexible in PvP.
 

Vindi66

Banned
Satanic Ecstacy said:
When your hammers do 11-13k damage, 1 extra skill on the SoJ or BK won't make a difference. You won't notice it at all.
Also, Cham doesn't give cold absorb, so a raven is more flexible in PvP.

Good luck getting 11-13k hammers without 2 SOJ or 2 BK's.
 

Shadoway

Diabloii.Net Member
Forgot to say, if you can toss a cham like that, you are likely to have jah/ber for enigma. So why does your hammerdin need CBF, when a frozen hammerdin can still cast hammer and teleport with no problems?
 

Vindi66

Banned
Shadoway said:
Forgot to say, if you can toss a cham like that, you are likely to have jah/ber for enigma. So why does your hammerdin need CBF, when a frozen hammerdin can still cast hammer and teleport with no problems?

Because not all pallys use tele. It's considered BM in most pally dueling games.

Every PVP character needs CBF somewhere.
 

Kevlar

Diabloii.Net Member
Shadoway said:
Well, I have already stated "if you are a super-duper, go ahead with anything---like triple zod wirt's leg."

For someone who plays legit and deciding on a self-found cham, my advise is "the cham for the cannot be frozen is a poor option in any situation" because you are not going to find another cham anytime soon.
It a advise, like any other. And sorry for not thinking that yours is a obvious advise. We just have different views. Still, it's a bit nasty to, in a subtil way, close the gap between me and a super-duper. My cham was self found, I socketed in a HOZ and I would do it again. In pvm I never needed a ravenfrost, in pvp ravenfrost is only needed by a caster paladin when facing sorcs and that's it. Against any other char, I preffer the cham'ed HOZ. The scene changes if my character is melee oriented and needs AR. But for a caster, IMHO, cbf from cham is very interesting.
 

Shadoway

Diabloii.Net Member
Vindi66 said:
Because not all pallys use tele. It's considered BM in most pally dueling games.

Every PVP character needs CBF somewhere.
It's BM because the jah and ber are duped. In a clean environment (early ladder), people are considered lucky and not BM if they have enigma or doom.

And no, teleporting casters don't need CBF(when they are not teleporting, they walk to get full block).

Kevlar, even if I trust you(as it would be prejudice otherwise), I don't trust the cham-in-armor people as a whole that their chams are legit.
 

Vindi66

Banned
Shadoway said:
It's BM because the jah and ber are duped. In a clean environment (early ladder), people are considered lucky and not BM if they have enigma or doom.

And no, teleporting casters don't need CBF(when they are not teleporting, they walk to get full block).

Kevlar, even if I trust you(as it would be prejudice otherwise), I don't trust the cham-in-armor people as a whole that their chams are legit.
It's considered BM because of the tele not the runes. In legit duels pallys don't tele.
 

Halbreed7250

Diabloii.Net Member
Vindi66 said:
It's considered BM because of the tele not the runes. In legit duels pallys don't tele.

of course we do, we tele, cta, doom, life tap, lower resist with wands, and all of that crap!!

oh wait, that's only 99% of bnet, and in every pubby dueling game i come across.

Thank god for private duels :)
 

Vindi66

Banned
Halbreed7250 said:
of course we do, we tele, cta, doom, life tap, lower resist with wands, and all of that crap!!

oh wait, that's only 99% of bnet, and in every pubby dueling game i come across.

Thank god for private duels :)

Ya I guesse I'm alittle outdated. The days of finding legit dueling games are long gone.

The most fun duels where the old 1.09 temple dueling games. Back when there where legit people to duel. Hard to find now. Now if you don't have CTA, tele, LT you might as well not even go into the pubby games.
 

LordDrift

Diabloii.Net Member
From Pubby Dueling this is what i learned

CBF - Isn't needed on Casters that Teleport. My Wind Druid or Bone Necro survives without it easily.

But my Smiter/Trap Assassin use it because they run a lot using Chains instead of Enigma.
 
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