Is blocking worth the DEX investment for a Summoner?

[FuzzButt]

Is blocking worth the DEX investment for a Summoner?

My basic setup is

20 RS
20 SM
20 CE
20 RSM
A few in revive and curses.

I am un-twinked and just coming back to D2 after a long break. I'm currently level 59 with base DEX. Should I start pumping it for blocking? I'm about to kill NM Baal and move into Hell, and I just want to know if blocking is necessary. Thanks.

 

[Blizzatch]

My basic setup is

20 RS
20 SM
20 CE
20 RSM
A few in revive and curses.

I am un-twinked and just coming back to D2 after a long break. I'm currently level 59 with base DEX. Should I start pumping it for blocking? I'm about to kill NM Baal and move into Hell, and I just want to know if blocking is necessary. Thanks.

:Shrug: You're going to get different answers from two different schools of thought. Neither is wrong or right, they're just two different playstyles.

Personally, I leave dex at the minimum I need for equipment. I find my skellies to be plenty of shield. You seem to be using mages, so you have even more.

But I won't argue with the max-block guys either. If you're going to teleport a lot, it might come in handy. It takes a ton of points, but Necros don't really need stat points that much anyway.

I guess it comes down to block versus more life. Either one can save you, it just depends on how you play.

 

[Eilo Rytyj]

I agree with Blizz. I'm not usually a tele-happy Summoner player. I only really teleport when my army needs repositioning, so I'm never usually in danger of being ganked while blindly teleporting through an area.

I'm one for the leave-Dex-at-base kinda Summoner. Truth be told, I personally think that those stat points are better spent in Vitality or *gulp* Energy. Yep, I said it. And no I'm not crazy. Think about it: A well-played Summoner is rarely in danger of taking any damage, except from the stray Slinger javelin or Gloam lightning bolt, both of which can be physically avoided. Secondly, the Summoner's big skills: Revive, Raise Skeleton, Raise Skeleton Mage and Corpse Explosion, all take a large amount of mana to cast. It can be solved somewhat with SoJs, BO and/or Mana charms, but even still, a long CE chain on /players 3+ still takes a lot out of your mana.

Now, if you don't absolutely need every last point in Vitality, and you aren't using a blocking shield, then it's a perfectly sane choice to place those points into Energy to lessen your mana woes, to reduce the chance that you'll run out at the least opportune time...



Anyway, back on topic: Nope. Not worth it to me. Minions provide a 90%+ blocking chance provided you use them right.

 

[Moe the Barkeep]

My non-ladder summoner has max block, and it helps immensely when I accidently teleport into a mob.

If I *KNEW* I wasnt going to have access to Enigma, I wouldnt get max block, because when I run with my summoner I just dont get hit. I'd go with vitality to protect me from elemental stuff and the occassional missle attack.

 

[MalVeauX]

I am un-twinked and just coming back to D2 after a long break. I'm currently level 59 with base DEX. Should I start pumping it for blocking? I'm about to kill NM Baal and move into Hell, and I just want to know if blocking is necessary. Thanks.

He's untwinked guys--forget teleporting.

I would say no. You will never get good blocking without a good blocking shield. If you can make Rhyme in a boneshield or something, or a Heater, that would be good. But otherwise, you're going to have to dump way too much dex to ever see 75%. And if you're 59 now, with base dex, unless you saved every stat point, you're not going to have enough stat points to see the Dex needed for 75% blocking on an average shield. Consider you have about 27 more levels before things slow down tremendously, which is 135 skill points, which will not get you close to 75% block on a shield that is less than Whinstans. So I would not bother with blocking. That's something you should choose early on, and have a plan for a shield to use that has high blocking %, like Whinstans, Homonc, Rhyme, blue of Deflecting, etc.

As a summoner with all the skels that you have, you don't need blocking really. Especially if this is not HC.

If you're worried at all that you're missing some resilience, which you're not, just get some resistance, use Dim Vision profusely. What cannot see, cannot attack you, which means zero blocking required.

Cheers, :sunny:

 

[muzzz]

He's untwinked guys--forget teleporting.

Enigma isn't the only source of teleport . Charges of teleport are available on orbs, staffs, amulets and circlets.

 

[Forbiddian]

Yeah, but if you were on charges, you wouldn't spam tele around and get into danger.


59 is too late to go max block anyway, so I wouldn't bother. On my Summoner, I had about 60 dex randomly invested and I started dumping nothing but dex at level 50. I only had like 50-60% block on Sigons until level 60, so I used Whitsans. Even if you started dumping now, you wouldn't have hardly any block for 10-15 more levels, and you wouldn't get good block until level 80+. And you might never get really good block with a homun (one of the dominant shields).


That's basically 30 levels or more where your life isn't going up. Barring 2x 20 dex Raven and Waterwalks and random other stuff with Dex, you're not going to get to max, sorry.

 

[Radamer]

This is an age-old question. I guess it depends on what kind of shield you would be using. I personally am working on a Fishymancer with block, though I don't pump dexterity to max it out, just to maintain the percentage of my equipment (which is 2 pts per level starting at level 6). So in my case, I would need to have a really good high blocking shield. This isn't too hard to do, the cheapest way is to get a 2-socket Tower shield and make it into a rhyme runeword shield.

But if you're going to use a shrunken head, that is non-unique, your stat points are probably better spent on vitality since the dexterity requirements for such "shields" to get to max block is insane and really not needed.

And if you're playing hardcore, I would say yes and get a good, high-blocking shield with a good shrunken head on weapon swap used to summon your army. Softcore, you really don't have to worry as much about blocking. Just keep in mind that test after test has shown that blocking is better then vitality investment for a necromancer, if your blocking is maxed out. No sense in dying due to a stray javelin or arrow while you are cursed and the arrow has the "extra strong" damage attached to it.

 

[phobia]

I'm the MaX Bock kind o Guy... Your DeX worth your ear ^^

In PvM... no

 

[muzzz]

...
Just keep in mind that test after test has shown that blocking is better then vitality investment for a necromancer, if your blocking is maxed out. No sense in dying due to a stray javelin or arrow while you are cursed and the arrow has the "extra strong" damage attached to it.

Do you have a linky to such a test? The last time I got into that debate we ended up calling it a personal preference. It basically boiled down to pretty good protection against archers and the like with block, versus a weaker but more all-round protection with vit.

 

[AnimeCraze]

The big question is: What is your shield? If it is a 3 diamond kite shield or the like, forget about blocking.

 

[MYK]

Untwinked = no block

Twinked (tgods + homu) = block

For me, that be how I roll!

 

[Mythatic]

I max block on ALL my builds, yes my Es/Sorc as well, except maybe my BvC is not blocked, but block is useful, even if you have minion stack, what would happen if all your minions all the sudden dies out? ><

 

[Radamer]

I max block on ALL my builds, yes my Es/Sorc as well, except maybe my BvC is not blocked, but block is useful, even if you have minion stack, what would happen if all your minions all the sudden dies out? ><

Save and Exit. Especially if I was in Hardcore mode.

Oh, and if my minions die out, it's probably some crazy unique Frenzytaur with fanaticism, cursed, and extra strong. Seriously, if your minions are dying out, then maybe you need to do some mf runs on the lower difficulty in order to get better +skills equipment.

But poor fishymancer players tend to ignore the basics like CE and Attract, both of which help with crowd control. Getting a Frenzytaur pack like the one described above to target one of their own works wonders for your minions.

Maxing block is only relevant when it comes to PHYSICAL damage. It won't save you from the Glooms or the exploding dolls in Act 5 Hell mode. Bone armor (even 1 pt with +skills) is a good alternative and always pumping vitality stats on a fishymancer are life savers. If you're going for survivability, then you will need a lot of life and resistances and not necessarily max block, unless you have a high block shield lined up. The stat placement for maxing block with a standard shrunken head is ridiculous.

 

[Forbiddian]

It's worth it for all other characters to max block -- why would it not be worth it for the fishymancer?

Hardcore is about prepping yourself to survive the greatest number of potentially dangerous situations. If you have a horde of minions in front of you, absorbing every attack, you're not in any real danger. It's only when your minions are dead and you're trying to flux or you're leading your minions (or teleporting if you're rich) that you're likely to die.

The potential gain from not having block is: About 200-250 more hps, access to shields with better mods, like Spirit (endgame only, but the str req is ridiculous).

The potential gain from having block is: Surviving the dangerous situations. Much faster room clears due to leading.


Hmm, tough one.

 

[Zoltok]

Absolutely 100% yes. 1 point in dex with a good shield (Homonculii are cheap and great) will make much more of a difference to your survivability than 2 extra health points. If you have an Enigma, it also lets you pull off crazy daring manoeuvers like ADing a crowd of enemies, then teleporting right into the middle them and bringing your entire army with you.

 

[AnimeCraze]

Hardcore is about prepping yourself to survive the greatest number of potentially dangerous situations. If you have a horde of minions in front of you, absorbing every attack, you're not in any real danger. It's only when your minions are dead and you're trying to flux or you're leading your minions (or teleporting if you're rich) that you're likely to die.

Or souls blasting through your minions, and hitting you even when they are there. As block can spell the difference between life and death with physical enemies, so can that 250 HP for convict souls. Regardless, you will wish that you have it the other way no matter which way you chooses......

 

[NumtyDoo]

I go the middle road. I put in enough dex to keep the chance to block the same as what it says on the sheild. So if it is a 60% block sheild I use enough dex to get 60%, then the rest in vit. Most desent sheilds have 50%+, however if I was going to use a bone stock sheild (less than 40%) I might just go straight vitality. Even untwinked you should be able to find a cheap sheild with greater than 50% block though.

 

[Radamer]

I go the middle road. I put in enough dex to keep the chance to block the same as what it says on the sheild. So if it is a 60% block sheild I use enough dex to get 60%, then the rest in vit. Most desent sheilds have 50%+, however if I was going to use a bone stock sheild (less than 40%) I might just go straight vitality. Even untwinked you should be able to find a cheap sheild with greater than 50% block though.

If you combine that with 1 pt in Bone Armor (and pumping Bone Wall in the end) then you should have sufficient protection against physical attacks. Most physical damage never goes above 100 points at the base level for monsters. Sure, Extra Strong, Champion, Damage Enhancing Aura, or Cursed Monsters will deal out more physical damage, but for the most part it won't top 100 unless you are in Uber Tristram. With that in mind, if you have Bone Armor with +skills, it should absorb a lot of the damage before your life points.

Also, because you'll be running all the time as a fishymancer, then max block becomes 25%, not 75%. You're better off just maintaining the block percentage of your equipment (again, that's 2 pts into Dex per level starting at level 6) and the rest in Vitality. Sure, 2 pts of life per 1 point into vitality doesn't seem to be all that much, if you consider that your strength will be much lower then a Barbarian's, you will have just as good a return. There's a reason why the Barbarian gets 4 life points per vitality point and the Necromancer doesn't: one requires insane amounts of strength in order to wield high damage weapons, the other doesn't. This means that you will inevitably have to spend more points into strength (and in some cases dexterity) then a fishymancer since they tend to travel light.

 

[muzzz]

Hardcore is about prepping yourself to survive the greatest number of potentially dangerous situations. If you have a horde of minions in front of you, absorbing every attack, you're not in any real danger. It's only when your minions are dead and you're trying to flux or you're leading your minions (or teleporting if you're rich) that you're likely to die.

If you're skellies get killed faster than you can resummon them it's time to run like a whipped dog. Whatever killed them will snap you in two and use you as a toothpick faster than you can say "dex". Rushing ahead of your army is similar, in that it will eventually get you killed even with max block.

In SC you can basically plant those statpoints in the ground and hope they grow a tree. Investing 100+ points just so you can goof of a little isn't a big deal. But it is a big deal in HC, where you want to avoid as many dangerous situations as possible. In HC I'd much rather spend my points to defend against things I can't avoid, like champion or boss monsters with a piercing attack.