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Is Alcoholism a disease?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Stevinator, Apr 11, 2005.

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Can MOdule88 get married

  1. Yes, if Smeg and Dondrei can do it, anybody can

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  2. Nope, he's a hopeless wreck

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  1. Stevinator

    Stevinator IncGamers Member

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    Is Alcoholism a disease?

    This was an idea from another thread.



    Apparently many of us (even the dictionary) seem to think alcoholism is a disease. I disagree. There may be a gene that makes some people more prone to addiction, but addictive personality types can become addicted to anything. Alcohol is merely more convenient than many other drugs/habits. If gambling addiction is an addiction, not a disease, and cigarette smoking is an addiction (or even if you think it’s just a bad habit), how come addiction to alcohol is not treated the same?



    I am not saying alcoholism isn’t a serious problem. I just think it might make more sense to inject a bit of personal responsibility into the mix here. If any other kind of addict is blamed for their addiction, shouldn’t the alcoholic be blamed for ingesting more alcohol than is healthy? Sure they may have a genetic predilection for addiction (though I doubt they have a genetic predilection for alcoholism specifically), but does that mean there’s no hope? I don’t think that’s the case.



    I also feel as though alcoholism is very difficult to define. Most diseases are you have them or you don’t. With alcoholism almost every rubric for deciding if you have a problem is different.



    http://www.teensupport.org/Topics/Addiction/take_a_quiz_alcoholism.htm



    For instance, though I’m not longer a teen, I answered yes to seven of the questions. Supposedly you’re at risk with just two.



    So I took another one.

    http://alcoholism.about.com/od/tests/l/blquiz_alcohol.htm

    Here’s what is said:






    Intrigued, as I don’t think of myself as an alcoholic, and although my friends think I drink a lot, they don’t think I’m an alcoholic either. And they know me pretty well. Anyway, so I was intrigued, so I looked around the site and I found this little article.



    http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/aa022697.htm



    Hmm, doesn’t sound like me. Seems it must be compulsive. My drinking is not compulsive, as much as it’s habitual, and cultural. When I’m in a different environment, I often “forget†to drink when I usually do and I don’t feel the same urge as when I miss a smoke. Often I won’t realize I haven’t drank for several days unless Andy or Tim say something about the last time they drank.

    So I kept looking around, and I found this:






    Okay, I’m absolved. None of that sounds like me. I feel better. But why would all the quizzes make it seem as though I am an alcoholic, when I’m clearly not?


    Why, after reading these and several other sites do I notice a lot of references to God as the main part of the solution? Check out what the twelve steps actually entail.
    http://www.12step.org/steps/index.php



    So we have a disease that only god can cure?



    Okay, there’s a few other options.

    http://www.soberrecovery.com/links/12stepalternatives.html





    Still though, basically these places just lock you up long enough to dry you out. You’re not cured if you can’t leave these places without falling off the wagon. I also am not sure you’re “cured†if you cannot drink normally, but have to abstain for the rest of your life.



    I have one last important link to read before you vote.
    http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/booklet.htm


    this site explains the difference between alcoholism and alcohol abuse. They say any more than 2 drinks for a man in a night is abuse. Apparently, my alcohol problem may be real after all. I’m not an alcoholic, I’m an alcohol abuser. Hmmm. I still disagree. Somehow I find that number a bit low. When we go out even the DD has a few early in the night. Then we make them stop until they’ve sat there an hour per beer so we can get home safely. I don’t think it comes down to the volume of alcohol actually consumed, but down to the purpose or the intent of the drinking. We don’t drink to get drunk, though sometimes we do get a bit tipsy, we drink because we were brought up to drink in certain circumstances. It’s much more cultural than it is fueling an addiction. Couple beers/glasses of wine after work while the family discusses the day; Bloody Mary’s on Sunday morning (if I’m not working); a few beers while we grill up dinner—if we’re grilling; Couple beers while watching sports; a few beers here and there, That’s normal; it doesn’t affect my job or drive my family away, in fact, the moments when I’m hanging out with my dad, or my close friends on a nice night with a cold brew have been some of my fondest memories.



    So to wrap up, what are your thoughts on alcohol, it’s role in society, and what constitutes abuse of it? What about alcoholism? Disease? Curable?
     
  2. Ranger14

    Ranger14 IncGamers Member

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    I dunno, I looked at the quiz you referred to from about.com (second quiz) and I see many combinations of two questions that would raise a huge red flag to me that there is an alcohol problem.

    This addresses why alcoholism doesn't seem like a disease, but why it is:

    http://alcoholism.about.com/od/tests/l/blquiz_alcohol.htm

    We can all argue whether we think it is a disease or not, but it is considered a disease by the following organizations out there and it is hard to argue with their expertise and stance. This article actually admits that there are a lot of medical practitioners out there that don't believe it is a disease, but concludes as to why it is.

    Source: http://www.physiciansnews.com/commentary/298wp.html

    Sure there's hope for people who suffer from alcoholism just like there is hope for people who have cancer, aids, etc. It doesn't mean one can't be cured and it doesn't necessarily mean they will be cured forever.
     
  3. NIRVANA

    NIRVANA IncGamers Member

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    It's a disease because Mitch Hedberg says so. :D

    "Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. 'Goddamn it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "Goddamn it Otto, you have Lupus' ... one of those two doesn't sound right."
     
  4. 5Ws

    5Ws Banned

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    :lol: :lol: Exactly my thought when I saw the thread title.
    RIP Mitch.
     
  5. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    I answered yes to two of the questions on the first screener and I'm certainly not an alcoholic.

    "2. Do you drink to “loosen yourself up†when around people?"
    Who doesn't?

    "7. Have you even passed out from drinking?"
    Sheesh, it was only a couple of times when I first started drinking.
     
  6. SuggestiveName

    SuggestiveName IncGamers Member

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    I got 5 questions right! That makes me a problem drinker! To celebrate, have a round on me!!
     
  7. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares IncGamers Member

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    bastard, I only got 4
     
  8. SuggestiveName

    SuggestiveName IncGamers Member

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    Hey, alcojolism is hard work. If you work really, really hard maybe you can get 5 when you grows up.
     
  9. Throttle

    Throttle IncGamers Member

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    Alcoholism is not a disease in the sense that it's not an affliction or something you can "catch". I think that you're probably either born with it, or develop it at a very early stage. My dad's a sober alcoholic going on his 5th year, and AA (Alcoholics Anonymous), along with the Minnesota treatment (sp?) has helped him immensely. He says he's had alcoholic symptoms since he started drinking around age 16 or so.

    It can't be cured the same way a regular disease can, but with the right help/treatment and a good amount of willpower, it can be controlled. On rare occasions, recovered alcoholics can go back to "regular" modest normal-people drinking, but it's a terrible idea since he/she will fall back at some point.

    If you think you're an alcoholic, you can always show up at an AA meeting and you won't have to speak, you can just listen. Alot of people do that. Just don't show up drunk...
     
  10. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    I reject alcoholism as a disease. The idea of genes being encoded with rates of use for man-made products that didn't exist when the genes came into being is pretty ludicrous to me. There might be genes that influence addictive behavior, but if that's the basis for alcoholism being a disease, then any and all addictive behaviors should be classified as such, rather than having "alcoholism" as a disease and pretty much every other addiction being either a felony or ignored entirely.

    The main problem with the gene argument would be that the individual in question still has to make the conscious decision to over-consume alcohol (or whatever other addictive product) on numerous occasions before one can become addicted, even if one is predisposed to addiction. Joe-split-a-six-pack-with-his-buddy-on-the-weekend can't become an alcoholic.
     
  11. Lord_Shinnok

    Lord_Shinnok IncGamers Member

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    I only got a 1 but that was on the lost time one so i guess a lot of the other stuff could'a happened, i just don't remember.
     
  12. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    I got a 7 - I win (hic)! (Ok, so I cheated... f'rinstance, I like the George Thoroughgood song "I drink alone", and having the doctor tell me to cut out liquor to lose weight is quite a stretch - but how many of you haven't regretted the previous night's drinking when you wake?)

    I thought the quiz was going to be a little more pansy-oriented, but at least it wasn't asking pop-psych questions and drawing serious inferences from them. Too often this "everyone needs a disease" mentality smells of Political Correctness to me. Even worse is the subtle inference that you can "catch" alchoholism, like from a drunken relative or friend.

    Yes a predilection for alchohol can be very dangerous and I don't think there's many drunks that can avoid such temptations yet continue to indulge. Are there many smack addicts that can get back on, once they've gone clean, yet not fall back into the addiction?
     
  13. DurfBarian

    DurfBarian IncGamers Member

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    Alcoholism is a disease. It has a genetic component. My grandfather had it; my sister has it. She's sober now, but she'll be alcoholic for the rest of her life. There's no going back to casual, social drinking for her.

    It's not physically treatable. You can't prescribe medicine that makes an alcoholic suddenly able to have one or two beers and stop there. It is treatable in the mental conditioning sense--that's what groups like AA do. They provide the environment alcoholics need to recognize their condition and persuade themselves to stay away from the substance that is so dangerous to them.

    If alcoholism were nothing more than one facet of an addictive personality, you'd see huge overlap in the populations of alcoholics, gamblers, smokers, and lotto ticket purchasers. But this isn't statistically the case. (Well, although I guess you might see a number of alcoholics who took up smoking to give their hands something else to do than shake as they unscrewed yet another bottle of whiskey.)
     
  14. DrunkPotHead

    DrunkPotHead IncGamers Member

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    Not a disease. And AA is a load of crap. It's religious in nature, and is sometimes made mandatory by the courts. Doesn't sound right at all.
     
  15. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    I think the problem is that like with many other things today, society and those who are opposed to the substance misrepresent it in such a way as to make it seem much worse than it is.

    Is alcohol a dangerous substance? Absolutely. Can it be devastating for some people and absolutely ruin them? Absolutely. Can other people handle it responsibly or even irresponsibly without serious impacts on their daily lives? Absolutely.

    I'm not going to even bother with those tests. I can guarantee you every one of them tells me I should rush straight to the nearest hospital and check myself in because when I had a few friends over for a nice dinner on Saturday night we went through three bottles of wine (the horror!).

    What is dangerous behavior for one person is not for another, in my opinion. My college freshman roommate was a good contrast to me in this sense. We both drank 6 nights a week freshman year. We would both black out--he would black out frequently (read: 90% of the time), I would black out very infrequently (read: only when I'd drank so much that I should have by all rights been in the hospital instead of my bathroom floor). He would often get aggressive, belligerent, or downright violent when drunk. I would usually just bring girls home or befriend random people. He got to the point where he questioned his ability to go more than a few days without drinking. I stopped without realizing it as soon as I went home for the holidays. He would be conscious of the fact that he was sober and felt like he should have a drink. I wouldn't notice it unless I was going out to party and was sober.

    Did we both drink too much? Absolutely. Was it alcohol abuse? Sure, and as freshmen in college, we wore that fact on our sleeves. Was it healthy? Ha. Did it make us both alcoholics? Now here's the million dollar question. I have no doubt in my mind that he's an alcoholic. In fact, he's gained control of it. He rarely, if ever drinks, and while he has not quit cold turkey, he limits himself to one or two beers because he's become so aware of how badly he tends to **** up when he's drunk. I won't get into stories, but some of them are just agonizing. He's actually afraid of being drunk, and has a very healthy respect for alcohol. Am I an alcoholic? Not hardly. Do I drink heavily, even excessively? Well, when I do drink, I tend to, yes. I even get obnoxious, annoying, and occasionally very grouchy when drunk. Unlike my former roommate, however, I am not conscious of the fact that I am sober when I do not drink. I almost never drink unless I'm out with friends (and if I do drink when I'm not out with a lot of people, I'm enjoying a nice pint or glass of wine at home with my fiancee to unwind). I don't wake up the next morning after I go out drinking wondering where I am, what I did last night, and who I need to apologize to.

    I guess that's my take on it, if you can wade through it and make sense of it. There are certainly some people who undeniably have problems with the substance such that we could call it a disease (though I'm not a doctor, have no medical training, and very little knowledge of the field, so I use that term loosely), but it is difficult to nail down. There are other people who can go toe to toe with alcoholics and walk away from it the next day without looking back.

    One final note--there is nothing that screams "ignorant" to me more than someone who will sit there and tell me that I am an alcoholic because I like to go out with my buddies on a Friday night and drink to get drunk. Judge all you want, tell me how wrong it is to want to unwind and get a little messy, but don't start telling me I have a disease and need medical attention because I choose not to be a stuffed shirt all the time. If I had a problem, my close friends would be concerned, and frankly I'd be concerned. Until, however, I start drinking more often than 2 or 3 times in 2 weeks, you're going to get laughed at. I'm not denying that there are people out there who cannot handle going out and getting smashed once in a while, but you have to keep in mind that there are people who can.
     
  16. DurfBarian

    DurfBarian IncGamers Member

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    It saved my sister's life, but yeah, you have all the answers. Whatever.
     
  17. DrunkPotHead

    DrunkPotHead IncGamers Member

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    Look at their success rate. Same as if they tried to cure themselves. 5%.
     
  18. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    DPH, try to be a bit more sensitive here. Some people need a little more motivation or group support to fight the problem. If that means AA and religion, so be it. At that point in people's lives, the alternative is not something worth contemplating. We're not talking about your average college drinker here, we're talking about alcoholics.

    People who legitimately have issues with alcohol need to deal with the problem in whatever way they can. If AA is the way they choose to do so and it works for them, more power to them.
     
  19. DrunkPotHead

    DrunkPotHead IncGamers Member

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    The problem that i have with AA is that they are a front for religious conversion. That would be all fine and dandy EXCEPT that it is sometimes made mandatory by courts and employers.
     
  20. Necrolestes

    Necrolestes IncGamers Member

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    After all this typing, I need a drink

    From a psychiatrist's point of view, alcoholism is a disease. It is a treatable disease but it is not entirely curable (as relapse is possible). There is a difference between alcohol intoxication, dependence, and abuse (for more information about the differences, you can PM me but the real issue here is whether or not alcoholism is a disease; for this argument, I consider alcohol abuse and dependence to be subtypes of alcoholism and thus disease states). Suffice to say, alcohol can cause so many physical and psychological problems that it can be considered a disease-causing substance. As such, the continuous use and abuse of alcohol leads to the disease of alcoholism.

    Anyone who thinks that they are not addicted to alcohol, please try this little experiment. Try to go 14 days without a drop of alcohol and see what happens (in fact, document what happens). If you go through withdrawal, if you substitute one activity in place of drinking, if you shut down emotionally, you may well be addicted. Then, come to me and tell me that you aren't addicted to alcohol.
     

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