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Interesting things you've found out about Diablo 2 on your own?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Zenigma, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. Zenigma

    Zenigma IncGamers Member

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    What sort of discoveries of the game or its mechanics have you found out on your own?

    Things I've found out:
    -If you find yourself directly on top of a rogue encampment chicken, it tries to flee but goes nowhere.
    -If you scroll through your skills or mess with other shrotcuts with the waypoint tab open, it closes; however, if you hold down alt or control while doing those same functions (scrolling through skills or opening your inventory/skill trees), it changes the way the waypoint and tabs close or otherwise keeps the waypoint tab open when scrolling through skills.

    These are completely inconsequential to the way I play the game and how it functions, but they're quirky, and I wanted to share them. What other discoveries have you all found out by chance?
     
  2. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    Honestly I've been playing the game too long. Anything I might claim to have found first was surely common knowledge by the time I discovered it. Even the more obscure things like Assassins not needing keys to open locked chests was probably taught to me by someone here. About the only thing I can say i "realized" independently was the 1.09 mastery bug, and that was only because I didn't hang out in the weird IRC guild chat rooms.
     
  3. Zenigma

    Zenigma IncGamers Member

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    What is this? 1.09 mastery bug? Do tell. Not that I'll ever play 1.09 again, but still.

    So I started this thread because I'm intrigued by how things are discovered in the game. Things that mere exploration doesn't uncover. I've recently found myself applying certain game mechanics to my plays in various games, but so much time has passed, I don't know how I learned these things in the first place.

    Anyways... these are the sorts of things that occupy my thoughts late at night, recovering from a few a drinks before going to bed.
     
  4. Espr

    Espr IncGamers Member

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    For myself, I only particularly recall two instances offhand, where I learned/discovered that the increased/faster mods on items could have multiple values despite the same display name, and that there was some kind of breakpoint that needed to be reached for them to have a visible effect. I don't remember if I figured any of the particulars out or not though. There may have been something in Diablo1 that made me pay particular attention to that particular set of item modifier, but I don't recall. About all I remember about D1's deeper mechanics was that I was pretty into them at the time D2 came out. And a handful of things in patch 1.07, but a lot of that is quite blurred together with that I read here.

    When it comes to discovery in games, I feel like there's three tiers:

    Organic discovery, where you learn/find things in a game naturally by playing over time. This is by far the most common source of discoveries, and is even put to more advanced use via things like API mods that collect the data and upload it to an online database (wowhead, for example).

    The quintessential example of this to me, is in Super Mario Bros (1, 3 and World for snes). For a lot of people this was their main/only game for NES/SNES for a good amount of time because the games were bundled with the system. Most of my friends playing those systems at the time (and myself included) found out a lot of the games hidden things/secrets and strange mechanics/bugs by virtue of just playing the game a lot.

    Certain ways of playing will affect how much any one player discovers via this method, of course, but that's not really a surprise. Kids in particular tend to play in such a way that facilitates figuring out games better than adults do. Kids don't really care about how much time they are "wasting" and will be prone to experimenting more often during their normal course of play. Sure, plenty of adults still play games with exploration and discovery and a "I wonder what happens if I do this" mentality, but it certainly seems to be less prevalent as people age, and become more self aware of how much time they are spending doing something, and how that corresponds to less time spent doing other things or less "progress" made in the game itself.

    The second method is something I'm going to call deliberate or methodical discovery. This is where it's less about normal play and in the moment experimentation, but intentionally trying to test mechanics and figure out how things work. Similar to what you might do to test for bugs or lack thereof. This is where you are going out of your way to very specifically test some someset of "things". For me this most commonly comes up when I have a question about how something works (or if it can work) that occurs to me while playing normally, and it cannot be easily tested just then. Stuff like experimenting with work overflow or techbulb paths in Civ4, or potential platforming shortcuts in mario. Or a D2 example others have done, in patch 1.07: collecting a bunch of act5 quest rewards to test circlet sockets, and whether or not elite bows could be received as a reward. This could also cover running a run timer as you test out different gear to find out which is better/more efficient for your character and its goals, and doing the math. or WoRGs 107 crafting experiments.

    The last is something like hack discovery. Where you learn things by reading the game files itself. Be it moddable human-readable files, or delving into hex-code and learning to read that, or source code when available or what have you. This is pulling ilvls on suffixes from text files, and combat calculations from code to calculate correct LCS figures, or AI personality/behaviour values from XML files in Civ4/5, and so on. Nethack is probably the quintessential game for this category. Delving into the source code to learn about the game was actively encouraged, and arguably required to beat the game if you're playing without reading spoiler pages.

    I hope that made sence, as I'm probably too tired to be thinking.
     
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  5. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    Only thing I figured out on my own is that diablo is not a perfect game. That is based mostly on PvP games and I'll give some example of what I mean.

    Before we start, short insight into cast mechanics in diablo. Casting spells has two parts in diablo: first part is actually casting the spell, second part is backswing animation after you have cast the spell. Or in short, first part is called "action frames", and along with second part it creates well known fcr breakpoints.

    For example 200 fcr sorc. Anyone and their mom knows she has 7 frames cast rate, right? But not everyone know that inside those 7 frames there are 4 frames of actually casting the spell, and 3 frames of backswing animation. This means sorc has then action frame of 4, and after 4 frames she has complete casting the spell. Rest 3 frames she only has backswing animation once she is done casting. This is best visible with vampire necromancer who has action frame of 5 and casts nova rather quickly, but spends the other... 10 frames or whatever weaving his hand in the air doing nothing else.

    Now mindblast. In PvP Mind Blast is not stunning players, it knocks them back and puts them into hit recovery instead. There is also swirly over the head of the player which remains for the duration of stun of mindblast, and as long as that swirly is there, ANY damage will put player to hit recovery. Ok ok. Let's focus on hit recovery aspect of casting Mind Blast.

    Let's have 2 characters in mind now. First is 65 fcr assassin, meaning she casts Mind Blast every 11 frames. Other character is sorceress with 86 hit recovery (7 frames) and 105 fcr (action frame of 5 + backswing animation of 3 frames for a total of 8 frames per cast). So, assassin casts mindblast on sorc putting her to hit recovery. Sorc is now trying to teleport out of it, but can't because she is put into hit recovery that lasts for 7 frames. After those 7 frames, she is finally attempting to cast the teleport, and it takes her 5 frames to succeed. Oh wait, 7+5 is 12 frames, right? But assassin casts mindblast every 11 frames. This means if assassin is constantly casting mindblast, she is gonna put sorc into hit recovery every 11 frames, and for sorc it takes total of 12 frames to get out of hit recovery and finally cast teleport.

    In short, sorc has no chance to cast the teleport and as long as assassin is mindblasting her, she will be constantly put into hit recovery before she manages to cast it. Diablo version of stunlock if you wish. But that is ideal situation in theory. In reality, however, assassin rarely manages to connect more than 2 mindblasts before sorc manages to teleport out of it. Sometimes as you mindblast sorc, she is just teleing around like nothing is happening. That can be explained with delay between casts if you play on someone else's host. But even if you are host, you still can't stunlock sorc that way.

    So, with some theorycrafting and stuff, I figured that diablo is strange game and sometimes strange stuff happens. What I figured out on my own however is that action frame of movement is either 0 or 1 or whatever very very low value. Why? Because let's take mentioned example of mindblast on sorc. She will be put into hit recovery. But after 7 frames she is free and has 4 frames of free space to do whatever (attempting to cast spell or move around). If she is trying to run instead of teleport, she will simply run those 4 frames before she is put into another hit recovery. Cool, right?

    You thought stuff I'm talking about is confusing? Just wait until I tell you what I tested next. Sorceress with 0 FHR has incredible 15 frames hit recovery. This means when something puts her to hit recovery, she is completely helpless for 15 frames and can't do a thing in that period. So I have tested the following: 0 FHR sorc that is surrounded by 2 wake of fire + 3 lightning sentries + she has mindblast over her head meaning she is put to hit recovery whenever she is hit.
    Theory say: There is no way in the world mentioned sorc should be able to move. She must be completely frozen in time, helpless as long as at least wake of fires are up.
    Reality: mentioned sorc had very hard time to move, but she did move inside those traps. Even if I put 3 wake of fire + 2 sentries, she is still able to move around. 15 frames hit recovery, yeah right, give me a break.

    My explanation of that confusing test is the following: when character is put to hit recovery in diablo, he can't be put into hit recovery again until hit recovery time is up. That means that first time sorc is hit with whatever, she is put into 15 frames hit recovery period. In that period, whatever hits her, hit recovery "timer" is not reset, meaning any hit inside that 15 frames period won't put her into hit recovery again. To have permastun effect, something must hit that sorc either exactly at 15th frame of her hit recovery, of 1 frame later. Otherwise her hit recovery timer will be up and she will have space to move until she is hit again. That's my conclusion according to tests.

    If same thing applies to say block recovery, those two things can explain how is it possible to teleport out of fanaticism pack who is beating the daylight out of you, and you instead of being stuck into block/hit recovery, you manage to teleport out like a boss. Next question is do hit recovery caused by damage and hit recovery caused by mindblast same in nature. In short, what if there comes freaky berserk barb and zerks sorc doing 2k damage to her at 14th frame of her hit recovery, would then the timer of hit recovery reset, or would sorc still be able to move?

    Anyway, those were some of my tests and discoveries. Thank you for not reading and cya around.

    tl;dr be useful and go make me a sandwich
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  6. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    Not me. All I know is that Barbs and Sorcs are fast casters and Amazons are really goddamn slow casters (when I tried to teleport away from Flayers...)

    Never cared about the Faster Cast mod whatsover for my characters. Just for Act III mercs.


    Some of what I have discovered:
    * A spawner type monster will not breed whenever it can see 6 or more little ones. (birth control?)

    * An Invader will flee if it's down to about 1/3 life unless it's the only monster left for about 2 screens distance. In that case it will keep fighting.

    * Abyss Knight bosspacks are seriously bugged in v1.13. They sort of act in unison (as a 'super being'), won't ever give chase or separate from each other volutarily. There is also lots of desynch going on - you can get hit for heavy elemental damage without seeing any missiles. They can be highly dangeous if they occupy a strategic spot.

    * If you put a scroll inside a tome, its sell value drops to half. Example: scroll of identify sells for 40 gold. Put a scroll of identify in a tome and the tome's sell value increases only by 20 gold.

    * You get 3x as much experience for river hydras if you kill the tails first (otherwise the tails die when the head dies and then give no XP)
     
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  7. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    Probably nothing seeing as the net was up by the time I really started playing it and I'm too lazy to be bothered with actually learning things.
     
  8. Maltatai

    Maltatai IncGamers Member

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    How bone walls attract enemies from afar.
     
  9. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    They still do? I assumed that was a 1.0 thing. Then again I haven't played a bone necro since 1.0 either.
     
  10. Maltatai

    Maltatai IncGamers Member

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    Yes they certainly still do. Quite useful skill for summoners too from time to time.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. TheNix

    TheNix IncGamers Member

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    There is always the crazy merc XP system I noticed in 1.08. I don't know whether I can take credit for finding it, but I bloody well noticed it in a big way!

    WTF2.jpg
     
  12. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    I guess I can't say that I discovered the merc resurrection bug in 1.07 that prevents them from being revived if they were eaten by a corpse spitter. I ran into the problem 1-2 times but never figured out why it was. I assumed that it was because mercs had a hidden number of lives and gave up on using them for awhile (~2007)
     
  13. logoutzero

    logoutzero IncGamers Member

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    In v1.00 (maybe more, but certainly not anything v1.07+) if you play the game in -w mode, and namelock a target, then drag your mouse out of the window and release the mouse button, your character will continue to chase down the target that you have namelocked. In v1.07+, you will stop at whatever coordinates your target was at when you made the click.

    This isn't really all that useful, but you can use it to do some interesting things self-MP style, with hostility/neutral and some certain builds.

    Another interesting tidbit that goes hand-in-hand with that:

    Barbarians can namelock with Find Potion and Find Item in PVP. How is this useful, and why? Well, in v1.00, you cannot buy mana potions, and of course, no 'Insight' to keep that blue orb topped off. Build yourself a Barb with a nice Find Potion skill, go hostile with your caster, and namelock with Find Potion. Drag the mouse out of the Barb's window, and go play with the caster. The barb will chase your caster down until you take stairs, and hork any corpses 2/3 screen or closer along the way! Of course, this requires a modified d2gfx, so there's that. You can also stack the Barb with MF and Find Item, and focus your main on killing (and survival for me, since I play HC) and get some extra drops that way.
     
  14. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I've found out a couple of things myself before getting them confirmed, but I don't think that's much of an achievement, as a lot of other things which I believed to be facts turned out as flawed or complete nonsense later.

    What I've never heard by anybody else: In Harrogath, there's a barbarian roasting a rabbit, to the east of Anya. If you approach him, he will follow you, as long as he's not too far away from the rabbit.

    The less useful a piece of knowledge is, the higher the chance that you discover it on your own. Perhaps you even were the first who regarded it as being worth reembering without having a fgood reason for that.
     
  15. Pyrotechnician

    Pyrotechnician IncGamers Site Pal

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    That namelocking thing is actually really useful sounding.
     
  16. naranjadita

    naranjadita IncGamers Member

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    Oh I remember discovering a nasty thing about Oblivion Knights when I was playing one of my singers - looks like the OKs are immune to AI altering skills like Taunt.

    Also, everyone does learn some tips and tricks on navigation in dungeons :)
    Like, if you're in an A2 thomb, and you see that a hallway is going to be like this - --++, you know it's a dead end.
     
  17. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    You can use the Horadric Staff to make a savage polearm, thus getting stuck until save/exit and re-finding the ingredients =)
     
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  18. srrw

    srrw IncGamers Member

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    Overlapping Barracks/Tamoe Highland map:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Not much else, really... I usually read a lot about game mechanics etc. so I rarely find something on my own.
     
  19. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    I think logo was theorycrafting a holy shock pally one day :p

    If only it worked in 1.07... lots of nice sorb items that could easily be combined with stuff like this, and find item would be amazing for cow runs considering the low drop rate without having a crowd of players IN the cow lvl (not just in the game...)
     
  20. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Best discoveries are imo ones that actually change way of how people play game rather than some mechanical discoveries (like Fabian's Pit zerker that pretty much took over world of MFing from any other build).

    As for something that I discovered myself... I guess how to make ith items in 1.07 (or previous patches in general) using ATMA?

    [​IMG]

    And before someone asks, yes, you can make oath in this :p It counts as base item.
    This one is rather weak but I've seen 77% cold sorb items, 217 maximum fire resists, and some mods I've never seen ingame. Possibilities are endless, only your mind is limit :p
     

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