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Interesting question...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by alexzed, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    Interesting question...

    Given the comments about JonBenet and the Warren Jeffs post below...

    One poster commented that he assisted in the marriage and statutory rape of people, and based on that should go to prison. Not that I disagree, but...

    I was just re-reading some Shakespeare, and the last one I read was Romeo and Juliet. Now, I do remember Juliet being young, but completely forgot that she was 13!!! And betrothed to be married on her 14th bday. Also...to quote the script:
    So basically her mother (amongst many others) was a mother at 13 - meaning quite possibly married at 11? (lol - and calling Juliet a 'maid' at 13...ouch!)

    So. Why is this not considered kiddy porn, disgusting, and worthy of jailtime? Sure - life expectancy was 40...but really...:scratch:
     
  2. Stompwampa

    Stompwampa IncGamers Member

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    becuase there were no pictures...and shakespeare is art...duh. :wink3:
     
  3. PatMaGroin

    PatMaGroin IncGamers Member

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    Same reason Venus de Milo isn't pr0n.
     
  4. bg1256

    bg1256 IncGamers Member

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    Hmmm...

    Well, it would seem to me that porn is intentially erotic, and it is only erotic.

    Shakespeare is poetry, art, theater...It might be erotic at times too though.

    I haven't thought about this in-depth before... I'm interested to see what people think.
     
  5. Rabbitz

    Rabbitz IncGamers Member

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    She's missing her hands, duh!
     
  6. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    well, pr0n is in the eye of the beholder, i would presume...but with statues in the US being covered up because they expose too much, and books being pulled for mentioning things that are certainly not offensive, i thought it was interesting to have open chat about 11 year olds getting married and having kids...

    Just interesting given the immediate 'hang the paedo's' discussions....
     
  7. Rabbitz

    Rabbitz IncGamers Member

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    Different times, different standards.
     
  8. bg1256

    bg1256 IncGamers Member

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    I guess I tend to think that it has to do with motive. Producers of porn are exploiting sexuality to eroticize and make a profit.

    I guess I just don't see that in Shakespeare...but it's not like I knew the guy or anything.
     
  9. thegiantturtle

    thegiantturtle IncGamers Member

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    I was required to read at least 8 of those in school. 2 of which were in elementary school. What a weird world we live in.
     
  10. Quietus

    Quietus IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, everything's going down the tubes as the gub'mint takes the place of parents.

    as for this whole thing about Shakespeare - I don't believe that Romeo and Juliet was meant to be erotic, and it was written at a time when marriage at that age was the standard. As was mentioned, life expectancy was around 40. Waiting until a girl was 18 to consider her a woman of age to marry would be like saying these days that women shouldn't marry until they're almost 40.

    There are many of his plays that seem to have been written expressly with perversion in mind - Midsummer Night's Dream, for example. It's a comedy, and heavy on the sex. It's much more racy than Romeo and Juliet is. I imagine that he probably caught quite a bit of flak for that one, actually.
     
  11. jackthelad

    jackthelad IncGamers Member

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    Thats really sad. I'd read almost all of Roald Dahls' books before I was 10, theres no fun reading books that are boring & staid, they dont inspire you to want to read more improve, which helps improve your grammar, vocabulary & spelling outside of school.

    This makes for interesting reading, the age of consent in Spain is 13. Obviously there are constraints; local law overruling national law/only between like aged ppl/etc. but it still makes for interestin readin. In Japan its 12! No wonder they are obsessed with schoolgirls! The men anyway....!
     
  12. Moosashi

    Moosashi IncGamers Member

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    Even if we judged it by today's standards, it wouldn't be illegal porn because it's fictional.

    Also, Juliet's age isn't the subject of the play. Even if Romeo and Juliet was meant to be erotic, their ages are incidental, i.e., the play is not erotic because Juliet is 13, except potentially to a modern audience. If the audience of the day would not have considered Juliet's age remarkable or inappropriate, Shakespeare cannot be accused of child pornography.

    An audience from Shakespeare's time would have considered it odd if Romeo and Juliet were in their twenties (today's socially acceptable marriage window). They would have wondered why neither had married and would have been skeptical of Juliet's virginity.
     
  13. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    Ding ding ding.

    And so, if there were different standards within different time frames, could it not be so that there are different standards within different cultures? If a girl is betrothed to be married at 14 in Nigeria would there be a "OMG PEDOS MUST DIE" discussion? Russia? China? Japan?

    Just because what they are doing is illegal within the area where they are practicing does not necessarily decide its morality. It is theoretically possible for a culture to produce children that are considered ready for being married off before the legal age of 16-18. The automatic application of your own standards to others when they may not fall under the same standards seems a little rash.
     
  14. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, the age of consent has gone up over time. How old is Romeo supposed to be, by the way? And do you have a passage that explicitly establishes her age?

    Those are both sincerely disturbing. It's pretty funny that some modern politicians go all red over something their great-great-grandfathers didn't think twice about...

    I read somewhere that they used to have public vending machines full of used schoolgirls' panties. They were removed, but only because of hygiene concerns.
     
  15. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    Yup - here. As for Romeo - there is no age given. Assumed to be 16 or 17.

    Yaboosh - nicely put...
     
  16. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    This is very true, and well put at that. However...

    Beg pardon? I don't think I could let 12-year olds run around getting raunchy in my fiction - were I to write fiction - and avoid all problems by saying it's fictional.

    And I am not doubting you on the issue of legality, but could you refer to the legal text so I can verify?
     
  17. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Didn't some prominent Republican Senator or something write a book that was wall-to-wall rape and paedophilia? I forget the details.
     
  18. bg1256

    bg1256 IncGamers Member

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    Whoa, never heard taht one.
     
  19. Bortaz

    Bortaz Banned

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    This has less to do with poliiticians going red, and more to do with them caving in to special interest groups like the ALCU, and also has to do with kookie judges legislating from the bench.

    The era of 'don't offend anyone, anywhere...even if it was written 300 years ago' is upon us.

    It saddens me that kids nowadays won't receive the joy I received from reading Mark Twain, because lamers today are offended by his then-PC use of the n-word.

    I think, if you're going to make a claim of this magnitude, you should remember those "details", and not just throw out an assumption. II mean, this isn't like saying they were driving 5 mph over the limit...this is a serious accusation. Might be true...might not...but you need to post proof or not make the accusation at all.
     
  20. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Remember the ruckus that The Merchant of Venice filmatisation started? The book had already been banned in a number of U.S. schools prior to that. I do think it's silly, yes, but do you honestly think that the schools have no right to do it, that because it was the way of the day to hate jews back then, it's all right to have touchy material in the curriculum? For myself, of course, historical things stay that way. But I can see why the modern-day taboos give an uncomfortable feel when being read, even if they weren't frowned upon back in the day they were written?

    EDT: Waiting for Smeg to come and show Shakespeare as the penultimate proof of all the present-day Europeans' antisemitic ways.
     

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