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Insight merc with ES sorc...?

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Psycho§omatic, Sep 9, 2006.

  1. Psycho§omatic

    Psycho§omatic Banned

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    Insight merc with ES sorc...?

    I was building my MF sorc when I decided to get a Hell Defense merc (defiance aura) and equip him with an Insight. I rolled a perfect 17 Med on my first ever own created R/W in over 2 years lol. Excited me. Back on to topic, I had already made my sorc a Blizzard with Frozen Armor.

    I thought about the idea, well I KNOW I'm not the one that thought of this, but of making a light sorc and use Energy Shield with combination of the Meditation aura. That should keep my mana up there so long as my merc is alive. Now, my question is: Good idea or no?

    My other question is, if that is a good idea of course, should I put like all my points into VIT or ENG? I've seen ES builds that max out VIT and have lots of +mana items but then again I've seen with mass ENG and their idea is "if you don't loose life in the first place, you don't need much of it."

    Any ideas and suggests highly welcomed. Thanks.
     
  2. Psycho§omatic

    Psycho§omatic Banned

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    ...anybody...
     
  3. comicalflop

    comicalflop IncGamers Member

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    yes. ES with a load of Energy, plus 20 points in telekinesis makes you nearly invulnerable, an insight will make you invulnerable to everything but poision damage. (an insight on my old hammerdin made me able to spam even next to mana burn monsters.) I'm making an Inifinty wielding Nova sorc, with insight on the Merc and with possibly over 3k mana (after BO) and 17 meditation I think nothing can touch you. Getting a low req infintiy to hold will be hard though... Nova works best with ES because ES takes 40 points to work effectively.

    If you have insight, my guess is you do not need as many points in Energy, because once your energy is like 2k and you have 40 in ES and TK, you'll be unstoppable. Of course, Vitality will only help with the poision damage, othersie it is useless. I'd pump vitality, because str/dex you don't need because you have low req items and charms.

    My planned sorc is going to be:
    Griffon's Eye
    Vipermagi
    Infinity Scythe
    Arachnid's Mesh
    Magefist
    Treks
    2Sojs
    Fletch
    CTA switch (CTA might be useless with Insight, maybe a lower resist wand? they can have up to 97 charges but I'm prolly gonna go with CTA)
    Sorc Torch
    Anni
    Light GC's

    Merc
    Insight Cryptic Axe
    COH Dusk
    Tal's Crest (maybe gaze if I find one)

    20 Nova
    20 Light Mastery
    20 ES
    20 TK
    20? some people say Thunderstorm, some Warmth, I haven't quite decided maybe some in warmth, some in static to increase the range
     
  4. WrathTalon

    WrathTalon IncGamers Member

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    Heya PsychoSomatic,

    My experience with Energy Shield/Insight builds is rather limited (to a melee sorc I once had who used Obedience herself and put Insight on her merc). Any of the other regulars will be much more knowledgable... But as for whether to pump energy or vitality with an ES build: maybe it depends on what trees and skills you plan on using? I know that both Lightning/Chain Lightning and Nova builds are more mana-intensive than many others, because their main attacks just guzzle the blue. So I would imagine that for a pure light sorc running ES, you'd want to invest relatively heavily in Energy, enough to make sure you can keep your shield up while still pumping out the sparks.

    But then again, my sorc was a melee gal, going toe-to-toe with melee attackers. I had trouble keeping my blue bulb up, even with an Insight merc and lots of plus-mana gear. But if I were a normal sorc, throwing ranged attacks... Maybe it wouldn't be an issue?
     
  5. Psycho§omatic

    Psycho§omatic Banned

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    Woooah, you can run Nova and do damage? How much damage can you do using simply Nova? I've heard of it but I thought it was more of a fun build.

    ...and Wrath, thanks for your imput as well, i see what your saying.
     
  6. WrathTalon

    WrathTalon IncGamers Member

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    Here's the link to Xenon's Infinity-and-Insight-toting Nova sorc. Aimed at PvP, but still very viable PvM in hell, I'm told:
    http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=446430

    I suspect that, in terms of damage output, a more traditional ES build maxing L, CL, and LM (along with ES and Telekin) will outdo an ES Nova build, but haven't actually looked into it...
     
  7. comicalflop

    comicalflop IncGamers Member

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    ES is most effective when you go full out, taking away 40 skill points. Nova is the best compliment to a full ES route, because it only needs another 40 skill points for nova and LM. Full lightning- CL, L, and Charged bolt- is best combined with wearing typical gear and having the merc wear infinity. This is also better for MF, because wearing infinity also means that lots of gear- weapon, shield, armor (VMagi essential for Infinity) is harder to get MF, because you need more FCR. a typical Light MF sorc-
    enigma
    Shako
    Hoto
    Lidless
    War Traveler
    or Tal pieces

    a pure ES/Nova uses:
    Griffon's
    Infinity
    VMagi
    treks
    it has no room for MF, while I always love Speed>MF, at a certain point you need at least 200% MF, but ES/Nova is the best at Key runs and countess runs, where MF is not needed. A pure light sorc also does not have the -45-55% light resist that infinity has. A sorc would need to wear crescent moon, a faceted shako and a faceted lidless to compare to that. The ES/Nova is not merc dependent (if merc dies, you can still kill but you're not invulnerable, just hard to kill sans posion) wheras the light sorc is merc dependent. Nova is a faster casting skill, and it's easier to aim (just tele next/close to enemies) Lightning and chain lightning are harder, chain lightning cannot every every mosnter. It's all preference in the end
     
  8. WrathTalon

    WrathTalon IncGamers Member

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    Comicalflop, you assume that a fully-synergized pure light sorc (maxed L and CL as main attacks, maxed LM, CB, and Nova as synergies) is best combined with putting the Infinity on the merc. But it's actually just as viable--and just as powerful--to hold the Infinity yourself for this build too. The extra damage you get from the -(45-55)% light resist mod alone more than compensates for the damage hit you take because of lower FCR and fewer plus-skills. And then, just like the ES/Nova build, you're not merc dependent for your damage.

    If you want to do a lot of MFing, true, it's probably better to put Infinity on a merc, so you can load up on MF gear. But PsychoMatic was talking about putting Insight on the merc instead, for its benefit to energy shield... If you want all-around survivability, with no reduction in the damage you deal, then you're better off carrying Infinity yourself, precisely because it makes you less dependent on your merc -- and this will hold regardless of whether you want to make an ES-Nova, ES-L/CL, or fully-synergized L/CL build.

    If you've got both Insight and Infinity, want to make a lightning sorc, and want to use ES, then either a Nova or a Lightning/Chain Lightning build are viable, practical, and effective.
     
  9. psych

    psych IncGamers Member

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    The problem with this idea is though, that lightning/clightning have the 117%fcr breakpoint, as opposed to the 105%bp for nova, hence making better options possible for nova (2*soj mainly).

    I run the nova build by the way and I can recommend her! Problems still arise sometimes with poison or mana burn monsters, but I hope a CtA and sojs can alleviate these. IIRC the build also warns for this. Just make sure you take some potions in your arachnid mesh and you should be fine.
     
  10. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

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    I suggest re-hiring one in Normal, it will be the same aura, but have much better stats.

    Don't forget to get the equipment off of him before re-hiring, of course...
     
  11. PFS

    PFS IncGamers Member

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    Rather than A defensive or offensive merc try.... Act 2 Norm/Hell Combat.

    They have a Prayer Aura, which because of the Meditation Aura is applied TWICE.

    In my experience you heal at about 50life/sec (may be a bit off here) AND get your massive mana regen. Which is decent for non-es builds as long as you're not getting *****-slapped all the time. For an es build it gives you serious tanking ability.

    Parties love you too.

    Never drink another healing potion again.
     
  12. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

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    Agreed. I use a Normal Prayer merc with Insight on my MF sorc (no ES though), and whenever I'm damaged below half life or so (she has 1.2k life), all I need to do is Tele somewhere safe for around 10-15 seconds, and I'm at full life. It makes using healing potions a thing of the past, and only Rejuvs in emergencies.

    With an ES sorc, I doubt you'd ever take damage, since your life and mana will regen at such a rapid rate.
     
  13. Ankeli

    Ankeli IncGamers Member

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    If that was true, we would be over crowded with such sorcs in HC :thumbsup:
     
  14. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

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    Well, maybe i'm a bit over-exaggerating, you still need a bit of skill and finesse with teleporting in order to not get swamped and killed. If you're good enough at avoiding enemy attacks, then you can survive most places.

    But I guess that's the way with all sorcs, tele away to survive...
     
  15. WrathTalon

    WrathTalon IncGamers Member

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    Heh heh, Psych, I understand the impulse to always want to get max FCR. But sometimes maxing FCR to hit that last breakpoint is not necessary, and sometimes it's actually counter-productive to your total damage.

    Holding Infinity myself, I only have 40% FCR (from Magefist and Arach). But this is enough to give me a 15-frame L/CL attack. If I were to put the Infinity on the merc, sure, I could easily hit the last 117% breakpoint, and my attack would be 12-frame. But that's only 25% faster. Which means you deal out only 25% more damage over time. 25% more damage output may sound like a lot--except that it absolutely pales in comparison with the MASSIVE damage enhancement you get from the -(45-55) enemy resist mod on the runeword if you hold it yourself.

    In almost every case, your total damage output over time will be higher if you hold Infinity yourself and have "only" 40% FCR than if you put it on your merc and hit 117%. Only if you're using a Spirit shield and a PERFECT Eschutas (3 plus-skills, 20% Light damage) socketed with a -5/5 facet will your total damage over time be able to match what you dish out when you hold Infinity yourself with only 40% FCR.

    As for an ES-Nova vs. ES-L/CL build (assuming both max ES and Telekinesis, put Insight on merc, hold Infinity themselves)... If we assume, say, a total of plus-18 to the lightning skills (just as an example):

    Nova build (maxed Nova, LM) would do max. 2,340 damage per attack;

    L/CL build (maxed L, CL, LM, achievable by level 91) would do max. 12,972 L damage and max. 5,891 CL damage per attack.

    Of course, Nova casts faster, and can potentially hit more monsters at once, if they're clustered around; but L/CL still does much more damage, even with its slower casting factored in, and will hit more monsters at once if they're scattered (use CL) or lined up (use L).

    So I'd say that either build is fully viable, and pretty comparable in killing speed. (If anything, I'd guess the L/CL build will probably be a little faster in most conditions.) The playing style will be much different, of course. I find Nova sorcs boring, since you're always using the same attack; whereas with L/CL, I'm always switching between two main attacks, depending on battlefield conditions. Makes things more interesting. But Nova does have a certain coolness factor... :afro:
     
  16. Psycho§omatic

    Psycho§omatic Banned

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    haha, wow thats fun...the only stats I used so far was enough to use my gear in STR. I'm at lvl 78 and I have 325 stats remaining to use plus I haven't done the skill quests yet. I just replaced my merc like you said with a Normal Combat one. I ran my usual mf spots in NM and didn't loose a single health for more then 2 seconds lol. I get hit and it shoots right back to full. Thanks for the advice guys.
     
  17. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    With V Magi, Arach, and Magefists you'll hit 70 FCR. That's past the 63% breakpoint for Tele, but you're 8 FCR short of the 78 Breakpoint for more lightning. Now when you add a griffons, that's 25% more FCR - 95% total. That should be decent FCR and still be able to carry the infinity yourself. If you want to hit the 105 breakpoint you could add a nice crafted fast cast ammy. If you can find a godly one, you won't even loose that much resistance. If you really want the 117% breakpoint, you'll need to add some rings, but that will cost you skills and mana from the loss of SOJ's.

    I guess my point is that you don't have to sacrifice a lot of FCR to carry the infinity yourself. You will loose the skills and resistances that normally come on your weapon shield though. You can make up for the resistance loss with charms, and the added damage from the -enemy resistance will make up for the loss of skills I'm sure.

    Hmm, this makes me want to try a nova sorc myself

    Infinity
    Griffons (faceted)
    Viper Magi (up'd, faceted)
    Arachnids Mesh
    Magefists
    Crafted Amy (+2 skills, 10% FCR and hopefully resists)
    2x SOJ's
    War Trav's (or whatever else you want)

    This could be really godly for your nova/es build. Then by all means use the prayer/insight merc to help it out. (although I'm hooked on the Holy Freeze mercs myself)

    *edit - Even if all you can do is Griffons, Arach and Magefists, that's 65% FCR, past the 63% breakpoint and the 52% lightning brapoint. You'll only be casting 11% slower for nova and teleport, and 16% slower for L/CL. This frees you up to use CoH and Mara's for more resistances.
     
  18. psych

    psych IncGamers Member

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    First thing: Coolness factor >> all ;)

    About the dmg calculations, I don't have a doubt that you are right. However as you hint it all comes down to tactics used. My nova girl does 1.5-2k dmg at the moment, but I recently traded for a soj, so it should go up a little.
    Afaik nova also stuns enemies, I don't know if light/clight can do this. And of course aiming is really easy for nova (there is no aiming :p ).

    However you say that nova would be boring because of the same attack over and over. Well, I sometimes use my 3k lightning (leftclick) if the situation calls for it and if some boss is still light immune after conviction I quickly change to telekinesis to stun and knockback. Finally in big parties, or high hp monsters a few quick static fields can be very valuable, so I disagree on the boring part.

    About the damage numbers, you did not mention that I have a higher level warmth (not maxed, since I put points for chilling armor, meh), so that is an extra safety.

    Last 2 things:

    I chose a holy freeze merc, seems to work well, did not try a prayer merc.

    I would choose sandstorm trek over wartravelers on this build, see the build thread (by Xenon[KoA]) for more details, in short, it is safer and more efficient.

    Do any of you infinity carriers use cyclone armor a lot? I rarely use it, for example versus ancients.


    EDIT: to all the nay-sayers about the fcr. When I play a sorc, I cannot stand to teleport at any speed less than 105fcr (8 frames I believe?), in combat this is also an advantage, because maybe dmg over time is similar, but if I am quicker with my attacks, I have the option of more attacks or reposition, resulting in safer runs.
     

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