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Insight in Tresher?

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by smeer, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. smeer

    smeer IncGamers Member

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    Insight in Tresher?

    Hi, I've found a 4so Thresher (non-eth). Is this weapon good enough to create Insight?
    I mean it seems to me that your merc will do descent damage with such a weapon, enough to leach and stay alive. And that's the idea...merc staying alive providing you with the aura...you do the killing part
     
  2. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Well, the damage of an eth one will be 50% more, but heck? Can't you afford making another one if you find an eth elite polearm with 4sox?

    I've used eth exeptional polearms with little or no trouble, btw. Mostly because they are lvl 27 to use...
     
  3. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

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    most definately.

    I got by just fine with an Insight Scythe on my MF sorc, until I could be bothered to make a better one. I believe the damage on the weapon was 33-61. Let me tell you, dual cold/lightning immunes were a pain... but could still be taken care of eventually.

    The important part of Insight is of course the Meditation. Both of my Insights (the old Scythe, and now the CV) have had level 17 Medi on the first roll. I guess I was just lucky!
     
  4. PFS

    PFS IncGamers Member

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    ANY 4os Polearm is 'good enough' for an Insight.

    Half my characters end up having finished hell and done god knows how many MF runs before I realise their merc is still with a normal polearm insight. Then if I can be bothered I'll change it over.

    If you have nothing bettre at the moment then definately make it.

    The runes are dirt cheap.

    Seriously - what do you have to lose?
     
  5. Evrae Altana

    Evrae Altana IncGamers Member

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    I also regularly make Insights in any 4 soc polearm I happen to find, whether they be elite or normal. The runes are dirt cheap, and I just remake when I find a better polearm.
     
  6. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind IncGamers Member

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    Insight into Insight

    I trade all but one ethereal 4oS and save that one for something higher than Insight. Ethereal colossus voulges are cheap, low level, always get four sockets if they have none, and do incredible damage when Critical Strike lands. Because they drop more often, you can continue to try for higher rolls using lower runes. The best weapon for Insight from RLvl27 to 48 is a superior ethereal bill, for most of the same reasons above, and in the hands of a Prayer Warrior it's insane.
     
  7. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    The damage of a partizan is far higher (20 more average dmg) and it is almost the same speed. I'd say even a noneth partizan is better than a eth bill.

    If merc str is the problem, then there is plenty of gear that gives enough str at lvl 27.
     
  8. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind IncGamers Member

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    Calculations

    Assuming the numbers on DiabloII.Net are accurate for normal Combat Warriors (Prayer), he'll have exactly 67Dex at CLvl27 - just enough. Strength, though, will be about **, and that means the armor and helm must have 25 total, unless the partizan is ethereal. This doesn't include: finding a 4oS, since max in it is 5oS; the base RLvl of the weapon being 23, which makes it better for CLvl24 dueling than a RLvl27 runeword; etherealness of a bill making it instantly wearable and average only 4.5 damage lower with greater speed; a use for bills that I never had before, whereas the partizan is better as stated above - a CLvl24 dueling weapon, mostly for Druids.

    There's nothing wrong with Insighting a partizan, I'm just saying if I had my choice...
     
  9. mr hamster

    mr hamster IncGamers Member

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    I insighted a grim scythe on my lite sorc, and with fort and a decent crown of thieves, he never dies AND can take care of LIs all the way through hell
     
  10. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Eth Insight Partizan + Twitchthroe socketed Pamethyst (or a good 5str jewel if you can find a good one rlvl >= 27) = use any helm you want, and far greater damage than with a Bill, while Twitchthroe gives IAS and FHR for even better merc performance.

    Your post said Bill was best, not that it's the easiest. Which is what I wanted to correct, as a 15%sup eth bill is probably MUCH easier to find than a 4s eth partizan.

    What weapons do you prefer for mercs lvl 26 and lower? I usually just gamble a pike as soon as they become available, or mule a eth one if I happen to have one.

    EDIT: Seems jewels can only have 4 str without the lvl going from 13 to 42 in one jump? Anyway, a perfect amethyst adds 10 str and the rlvl is 18.
     
  11. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind IncGamers Member

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    Well, if you're going THAT far...

    Jewels of Virility: 1-4(13), 5-6(25), 7-9(42). Since Insight is a RLvl27 runeword, it makes sense to get at least five out of it, but it needs some other affixes to be useful. You also can't upgrade it until he's CLvl30 (ready to face the Ancient's), and even then it's not a good choice for a melee character. An exceptional rare at RLvl27 could have higher defense, higher hit recovery, one more socket, and up to five strength. No need for blocking or dexterity, but can get two additional affixes, with three more on the second jewel. The only thing lost is the IAS, but damage can be just that much higher.

    Remember, you said 'even a noneth partizan is better than an eth bill.' That's what I compared it to. The partizan needs to be ethereal to compete, and then it's a matter of what you're putting in the body armor and helm to try making it better without considering them for the bill. Anything you can put into armor/helm can be replaced for the bill, i.e. if you get +10%IAS out of an armor to even the speed, you can even damage on the armor the other way.

    The point is there was no previous use for bills before Insight, now there is and damage per second was possible to exceed partizans assuming other factors - that makes it the best. Of course, the durability is higher on partizan, though they're mercenary weapons and ethereal at that, but range is a factor, too. Ability to get 4oS in any partizan aside, go through the numbers and show me, then I'll believe (I'm not stubborn:).
     
  12. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    I may have been taking my mouth too full when saying 'even a noneth partizan is better than an eth bill.' ;)

    Well, anyway... I can at least assure you that the setup I was talking about kicks enough to take out ancients ;)

    Speaking of armors, I'd actually prefer a 4s glitched ornate plate (can get 1k+ def) with 4 rare jewels ED/6str/-15%req/some res. -45% req should make it wearable at merclvl 27. 9 allres on a rare jewel is rlvl 12 IIRC, so up to 36 allresist (unneccessary) should be possible.
     
  13. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind IncGamers Member

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    You can't bring gawdlies into this conversation, otherwise we'd have to ditch Insight altogether.
     
  14. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Probably. What other weapons, then? 15%sup 6s eth Grim Scythe? Lance?
     

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