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Input welcomed re 2H Melee Enchantress

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Zyr, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Zyr

    Zyr IncGamers Member

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    After I made this staff nearly eight years ago, my partner looked at it, looked at me, and said, "It just screams melee Enchantress, doesn't it?"

    Naturally, I agreed. And I've finally started her.

    caliente-257_16_5_insight_elder_staff.jpg

    I've previously done a Frozen Orb Enchantress with considerable success (currently level 89), and Caliente has enjoyed smooth sailing so far. But I'm now banging my head against the competing factors she'll be confronting in Hell: IAS v. FCR v. damage reduction. I'm unsure what tradeoffs to make.

    Currently, she wears "Treachery" plus Sigon's gloves and boots for 75% IAS, good for 10 fpa per TitanSeal's Attack Speed Calculator. I think I could live with that, and 9 fpa seems impossible. But I'd also like to achieve 63% FCR for Teleporting purposes, and that would be a lot easier with Magefist. I had hoped to give her significant integer DR, and have a +2 Sorc skills / 18 DR circlet, but Larzuk the Lazy only gave it a single socket, so that hope seems to have been dashed.

    Caliente is on East HCNL, so such goodies as "Faith" and "Pride" are not available to me.

    I have less experiences with Sorcs than with most other classes, so there are very likely things I'm overlooking, and I'd be grateful for you to point them out to me. :)
     
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  2. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax IncGamers Site Pal

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    Here's what I'd do:

    Prebuff:
    Volcanic Circlet/Harlequin Crest
    Volcanic Amulet
    Volcanic Orb / Rare Orb
    Spirit Shield
    Magefist
    Enlightenment Dusk Shroud (Pul Ral Sol)

    Melee Gear:
    Insight (35% FCR)
    Rare/Caster Amulet (10%+ FCR ML LL Resists DR)
    Rare/Caster Ring (10% FCR ML LL Resists DR)
    Rare/Caster Ring (10% FCR ML LL Resists DR)
    Treachery (45% IAS)
    Rare/Blood Gloves (20% IAS ML LL Resists)
    Nosferatu's Coil (10% IAS)
    Helm = your choice

    This gives you 65% FCR and 75% IAS and depending on the craft/rare you can get some PDR etc. With a good caster amulet, you can switch a ring to Raven Frost.

    End Game:
    Arachnid Mesh lets you switch to a better amulet like HLW.

    --

    EDIT: Are you using ES?

    EDIT 2: Could go for safety amulet with FCR

    EDIT 3: Something like this but for Sorceress Skills
    Code:
    Order Emblem
    Amulet
    Required Level: 53
    Fingerprint: 0xf352a233
    Item Level: 93
    Version: Expansion 1.10+
    +1 to Amazon Skill Levels
    +10% Faster Cast Rate
    +16 to Life
    +13 to Mana
    Regenerate Mana 5%
    All Resistances +16
    Damage Reduced by 1 
    
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  3. Maltatai

    Maltatai IncGamers Member

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    Zyr, how do you want to play the sorceress? Right now you seem to prioritize offense before all else. If she is intended to teleport a lot and hide behind a strong hireling to deal as much damage as possble without tanking, like a melee version of a ranged character, that seems right. If you intend to tank enemies I think she will need much more faster hit recovery and damage reduction.
    Is this twinked or untwinked? Are your options significantly limited in some way by lack of gear?
    What curse will you use?
    What hireling will you use and how will she/he be equipped?
    How do you (tactically) intend to deal with crowds/superstrong individuals/champion packs?
    How will she compensate for the naturally low life of the sorceress?

    My experiences with single tree sorceresses who meleed against most immune enemies underlined the need for hit recovery and overall toughness. Both could deal decent damage with an envenomed quick weapon but were too handicapped by the long time it took for them to recover from hits and the short time they could stand up safely in melee due to lack of life.
     
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  4. zemaj

    zemaj IncGamers Member

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    What does your skill layout look like? If the main casting you will be doing is teleporting (assuming enchant and cold armor of choice, if applicable, are treated as pre-buff), then Energy Shield could add a good bit of safety. If you could manage a +3 ES base for 'Memory', then you wouldn't even need to actually point Energy Shirld, just Telekinesis. Just that between lvl16 Meditation Aura and high-level Warmth for Enchant synergy, mana regeneration rate will be ridiculously high, and even encountering manaburn bosses shouldn't be too big an issue, as long as you stay aware of your mana bulb.

    Also, when I played around with an enchantress I tried 'Delirium' and aside from all the crowd control that brings, an unexpected benefit was actually being morphed... Bone Fetish ias breakpoints are really sweet, and the run/walk speed boost was also fun
     
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  5. Zyr

    Zyr IncGamers Member

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    @ioupainmax, @Maltatai, and @zemaj, thanks very much for your comments! :) You've helped enormously to clarify my foggy thinking. :rolleyes:

    I should have mentioned Caliente's switch weapon in my previous post:

    caliente-3enchant_memory.jpg

    Self-MP. Caliente is accompanied in game by a talented (or at least very loud) Barbarian vocalist, with level 41 BO and Shout and level 24 Battle Command.

    Totally twinked. There are many items I don't have (for example, I can't outsource IAS to a "Faith" Rogue, and I've never seen an Arachnid's Mesh), but I don't think my options are significantly limited.

    My primary objective is to take the best possible advantage of the properties of the staff, but I'm not going to be in a terrible hurry about it. I have no intention of engaging with large groups of critters in melee, for example. And I'm giving serious consideration to placing a point in Hydra (since she has all the prerequisites anyway) expressly for the purpose of scouting. However, I'll definitely be thwacking Act bosses, up close 'n' personal. :D

    That's a most thought-provoking pair of questions! Caliente is currently accompanied by one of Fara's Prayerful disciples, wielding a non-ethereal "Obedience" Thresher, wearing "Treachery" and Duskdeep. The plan was to switch in a Tal's mask when he can equip it in a couple of levels. I had toyed with the notion of replacing him with a Mighty warrior, equipped with the same gear.

    But the curse question has caused me to reexamine this plan. I don't do wands on switch. Period. I've been stuck too many times repeatedly Life Tapping or Lowering Resistance when the weapon switch didn't "take." But I've very much enjoyed Confuse from "Delirium" and Weaken from Ondal's Almighty equipped by mercenaries. Also, it belatedly occurred to me that this might be the long-awaited opportunity for me to use a "Lawbringer" swinging Barb mercenary. It didn't work out for me with a Javazon, but being able to Teleposition a Decrepifying Barb merc might be a very different story. Thanks for the juxtaposition of the questions! :)

    Thanks for the memory jog! I found one a year or two ago, but had forgotten that I have it, and about the IAS. It certainly would open up the glove slot (and therefore the boot slot, too).

    BINGO! :) I had completely forgotten about the need for CBF on a melee character. :rolleyes: Not only that, but Raven Frost is the most concentrated single-space CtH booster in the game, and I desperately need to boost Caliente's in order to take advantage of the staff.

    Intriguing! I admit I'm apprehensive about a caster not being able to cast, and I expect that with no shield I'll be desperate for resistances from the helm slot. But I'll certainly try "Delirium" on Caliente in NM after she gains a few more levels and is better equipped. :)

    Thanks to your questions and suggestions, I've begun ferreting out possible gear for Caliente from myriad mules.

    When I started this project, I was obsessed with giving Caliente as much integer DR as possible, starting with this amulet...

    3cold_20dr_amulet.jpg

    ...and this circlet:

    2sorc_18dr_circlet.jpg

    But when Larzuk the Lazy gave the circlet a single socket, I began to come to my senses, realizing that resistances were going to be hard enough to achieve on a shieldless character without giving up the hat and amulet slots as well. Caliente will likely don this hat when she reaches 67:

    2sorc_16ra_37cr_diadem.jpg

    If she lives long enough, and if I can't find or make anything better in the interim, this might become her end-game amulet:

    1sorc_9fcr_16ra_amulet.jpg

    While Nosferatu's Coil is strongly appealing, I suspect I'm going to want the belt slot for FHR as well as FCR. This one might do unless / until I can make a better one:

    9fcr_24fhr_caster_belt.jpg

    With the FCR from "Insight" and a single 10% ring, she'd have exactly 63% FCR. With the FHR from "Treachery" she'd make the 9 frame break point, and four inventory spaces worth of charms would achieve 8 frames. My charm mules are, er, messy; I hope I can find some with other useful mods.

    Thanks again for the helpl! :)
     
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  6. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax IncGamers Site Pal

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  7. Maltatai

    Maltatai IncGamers Member

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    Confuse also attracts monsters from long away, like bone walls and (one can never guess...)...attract. Would that be a nuisance to you if you used Delirium?
    There is also the option of some rare gloves with weaken charges, if you happen to have a pair with 20% IAS to go with the Nosferatus coil of course. Since I tend to play many untwinked casters that try to dabble in melee I consequently put a lot of value in being able to cast a curse before you engage this or that scary mob instead of waiting for it to trigger. You might not need to be as defensive but I thought I should mention the option for the sake of thoroughness.
    I think the barbarians bash and stun and more direct and agressive AI is worth taking into consideration too. If he can get a chain of stunning going he can shut up the scariest of extra-everything minotaurs and even Hephasto I think. A teleporting employer is the best of friends, as he can just be teleported away if the foe gets the first hit and locks him into hit recovery. Sooner or later it will be the barbarian that gets the first hit.
     
  8. Zyr

    Zyr IncGamers Member

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    I read that (and the other thread) with considerable interest and surprise, because I've never had a game crash involving "Delirium." I don't have any idea why not. I might hypothesize it's because all of my experience with the rune word is on the realms, and that realm servers aren't subject to the same issue. I think it more likely that it's because the mercenaries who wear them serve Summoner Amazons, and rarely get hit.

    I made my first "Delirium" helm ever for the Defense. I was striving for the highest Defense I could achieve for Seconda_Fender, consistent with her build, and I wanted no less for her mercenary, one of Fara's Defiant disciples. I'd had an ethereal three-socket Spired Helm on a mule for years, waiting for the right time, and this was the right time.

    delirium_spired_helm.jpg

    Mizan equipped the helm at the earliest opportunity, level 59. (He later surrendered his gear to the Mighty Ahsab.) Guarded by maxed Decoy and Valkyrie, by the Clay Golem summoned from charges on Seconda's "Stone" Wire Fleece, and under the influence of high level Shout from a Barb in the game on a second account, I'm not sure I've ever seen Seconda's merc as a Bone Fetish--and she and Ahsab are now level 84. I do see scenes like this frequently...

    seconda_delirium_confuse.jpg

    ...and I like it a lot-- enough so that when I revamped another of the Fender Sisters, Leona_Fender, I made another "Delirium" in an ethereal Bone Visage for her merc.

    I don't know, because my only experience with "Delirium" on a character (a Barb) was limited and brief; I didn't like him as a Bone Fetish. But I suspect that, without being surrounded by tough tanks, I would find it to be a serious problem.

    Do you find rare gloves with 20% IAS and Weaken charges frequently when playing untwinked? :p I'll comb the mules, but I don't recall storing any (not that I necessarily would). I wish I were less nervous about "Delirium" with it's 60 charges of Weaken.

    I'm leaning very strongly toward a visit to Qual-Kehk; thanks again. :)
     
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  9. Maltatai

    Maltatai IncGamers Member

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    Of course, they are more common than Isenharts breastplates!:D Don't everyone have at least five pairs?!

    Nah, weaken charges aren't very common at all in my (rather limited) experience with finding good rare stuff. Now when we're at it, why stop at rares - how about crafted weaken/IAS blood gloves for some crushing blow and life leech too?:p

    On a completely different note, will you have a source of Prevent Monster Heal or Open Wounds? Since the venom will cut poison duration and poison immunes are troublesome on occassion too. Because if not, how about a point in firewall to make additional use of the fire mastery and inflct damage each frame to stop monster healing? Besides, it's a good looking spell...I'm not biased at all...oh, no...
     
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  10. Zyr

    Zyr IncGamers Member

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    LOL @Maltatai!

    My partner and I have about ten years' worth of Blood crafted gloves sitting on mules Against The Time Of Need, so that's exactly where I'm going to check first. But even if I turn up such gloves, I think I'll still need a Caster belt for FCR and FHR, ruling out Nosferatu's Coil. That leaves Fervoring the hat as the only way to reach a 10 fpa attack speed. That is not unthinkable, though I'd rather use a hat socket for resistances.

    I'm going to put Toothrow on the Barb merc as soon as I can hire him. That will give him the Str to equip the ethereal "Lawbringer" Colossus Sword I want him to swing, with the 40% OW as a bonus.

    But in the long run, I think I'll want the Barb wearing "Treachery" like his mistress plus a hat with two Jewels of Fervor, for 5.5 fpa standard attack and 11 fpa Bash and Stun. I'm a major fan of OW (as you know if you read about PunchinJudy :D), but Chili_conQueso, my level 89 Orb Enchantress (who, though mainly a caster, does swing her "Spirit" Phase Blade from time to time), has no OW (or CB), nor does her merc, and she has done alright.

    Sound, sensible suggestion, Sir! :)
     

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