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Input for Trader/MP Profiles

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Cattleya, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    Input for Trader/MP Profiles

    In this thread Shagsbeard brought up something I have been thinking about for a little while:

    We have the (still fairly new) Trader Profile thread in the Trade Forum. I think it has been very helplful, but it could use some tweaking to improve it's usefulness.

    One thing that will eventually be added are some tables to make it easier to find out who fits into the major trade catagories. The main alphabetical list will remain as well, since it allows a little more freedom in what you can post about your play habits.

    The addition of the tables will allow some room for some of those Yes/No categories.

    Question 1: What sort of things do you think are important to get listed as their own yes/no category. (As opposed to something that just can be declaired in the "other" section of the full profile.)

    Here are challenges that I see:
    -keeping the size of the list reasonable (I hate code tables that scroll horizontally. :grin: ) while hitting the main issues that come up
    -Not effectively encouraging practices that while officially legal are in reality are not generally accepted by those who trade and MP. (Things like HC corpse looting and SC --> HC transfers fall into this category.)

    Question 2: Do you want to see the posting of a trade profile required for MP as well? (A link to the profile thread would be added to the first post of the MP thread.)

    Question 3: Any other ideas for improving the thread?
     
  2. Tamboo

    Tamboo IncGamers Member

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    Hello,

    Although I am more of a lurker than a poster, I think I have a good enough idea of the general "feel" of the forums right now to have something helpful to say.


    1. The most obvious choices to me are version, HC/SC, and mod status. With some people using separated stashes of multiple combinations of these, it's a very important thing to be able to reference. Other useful information might also be added there. My opinion: the "gray areas" (HF rushing, hot-muling) could be listed separately in the "other" section.

    2. Yes! This would help with newer members, especially those who don't speak English fluently, and with those who might MP with them to be more comfortable. Again, a very handy reference. Or maybe a separate list of MP profiles, in this forum.
    Also for members like me, with low post counts, the more prominent members may be more likely to want to MP with me if my practices are posted somewhere (although I understand if they are wary).

    3. No ideas here :scratch:

    -Tamboo
     
  3. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    1. Some checkbox items for a profile for traders:
    - I play MP with SPF-members
    - I play MP with friends who aren't in the SPF
    - restored mapseed
    - HC looting
    - vanilla player, will trade with RRM (separate stashes maintained)
    - ditto RWM
    - hotmuling Gheed's
    - accepting hellforge rushed runes/items
    - cheesy /players1 kills, /players8 chest popping
    - moving items back a version (1.11 -> 1.10, etc.)
    - moving items forward (especially 1.07 -> 1.11)
    - Andy bug for SoJ's, etc.
    - ethereal armor/defense bug

    ... although, I don't know if a checkbox-based system is entirely necessary (overkill?). Perhaps if there were a detailed post listing most/all of the 'controversial' playstyles and explaining their consequences, and that info was posted in the first post of the profile thread, others could specify what they do/don't want.

    Edit: I'd be glad to help draw up a summary of the pro's/cons of each tactic. In fact, I don't feel like playing atm, and I've got nothing better to do except work, so I'll get a start on it. :wink:


    2. Although I don't MP, I think it makes sense to have an MP Profiles thread - and perhaps every time the MP thread is closed/recreated, a the first post should have some MP guidelines listed (taint, etiquette, etc. - although this info might already be present).


    3. Beer & Durf
     
  4. nepeta

    nepeta IncGamers Member

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    Too complicated for me. If I've got to keep track of... what 15?! checks, I'm out.
     
  5. Suiling

    Suiling Banned

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    1. 100% what Tamboo and sirpoopsalot said.

    2. I guess it will be better to have MP Profile thread. MPers can post their version, mod status and HC/SC.

    3. Well, sometimes when i read post, i tend to close my eyes a bit to read things clear. Mind to change the background colour to a bit darker? Like Dark blue or black?
     
  6. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    too late to edit my last post. :embarassed:


    Good point, nepeta. This could be quite painfully boring to many people, and probably shouldn't be required of everyone.

    However, for those of us willing to do a little research and 'background check' on our potential trade partners, this could help a lot... or it can still make things more cumbersome. I'm not entirely sold on the idea yet either - it depends on how it gets implemented.


    Edit: 2 more 'tactics' (which, I believe brings the total to 15, as nepeta mentioned :grin:)
    - moving SC items onto HC characters
    - moving HC items onto SC characters
     
  7. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    I was aware that the list could get pretty long. :grin:

    Just to clarify, any yes/no will be about if you would trade/MP with someone who used them, not just if you would use them yourself. So, perhaps it would help if people would list some practices that would keep them from trading with people.

    I know that there are some practices that I personally don't like, but I still will trade/MP with people who do them. (Mostly because it would just be too much work to worry about tracking down everyone tainted by hot muling gheed's and the like. :wink3: )

    So, what I'm looking for is issues that would be actual deal breakers for you when you trade and MP. I think poops has a good general list going to use as reference of issues that could come up.
     
  8. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    I don't think it's a good idea. It will cause segregation in our already small society, and stifle trading.

    However, I agree that we did need what we have now. I applaud the current setup, Cattleya and Hrus, you guys really solved the whole "mod" issue. I think that the current system should stay.

    Just my opinion.


    -GG
     
  9. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    I've emailed this to writeup Cattleya. I didn't post for full discussion yet because:
    1) there were a couple of sections that needed a fact-checking
    2) I don't want to hijack this thread with a discussion about the virtues hotmuling gheeds, etc.
     
  10. nebux

    nebux IncGamers Member

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    all of them are useless rules. even the trader profile rules are useless now. i play under my rules.
    HC is a separate game from SC. this people need to understand.
     
  11. jjscud

    jjscud IncGamers Member

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    No, that is a very simple question. Absolutely everyone that trades/mp's is tainted byt hotmuling gheeds. Same with HF runes, Andy bug, moving items forward, etc...

    As I've pointed out before, if we haven't been carefully tracking it from the beginning, then there is no other assumption we can make except that everyone who mp's or trades is tainted by it.

    Sure we can make a bunch of checkboxes but it its acceptable under the forum rules (even if its not acepted by everyone) than everyone who mp's and trades should be checking the checkboxes.

    I'm sorry but the trade/mp pool is already tainted by pretty much everything discussed in this thread (there may be one or two exceptions) and the only way to change that is for everyone to restart.
     
  12. Timinator

    Timinator IncGamers Member

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    dont forget the biggest set of questions:
    Do you hack, are you a nub, would you do something to piss off the community and not care

    i think a table form you do yes or no would be great to see what people find acceptable/offensive or not, it would help to cut down some of the tension
     
  13. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    I just can't see the reason for a checklist of feature/bug abuse, so that if someone doesn't like hotmuling he/she/it can say you're a cheater since he/she/it doesn't do it. And not trade of course.

    It used to be so simple, no mods and everyone played 1.09. No one cared about people bringing stuff forward, since it was a logical thing to do. Personally, I still don't see the point of playing 1.10/1.11 only, as SP isn't the same as the ladder on bnet. Of course, that's just using it as a rule by itself, if it's a consequence of playing untwinked for example then it's different.

    Of course, then the RRM/RWM/FE mods came along. Blame durf for them. They're mods, they're evil, so it must be said you're using them. But it seems the trading circle got on the slippery slope of bureaucracy after that, with extra rule after rule. I don't trade, but I don't like the SPF going this way. The way I see it is that you can either accept the fact that the trade pool is tainted (it has been that way forever, and won't ever be clean) and stick to version/mod (taking into account forwarding items to newer patches) or just don't trade at all.
     
  14. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    I'll be honest, no checklists means less work for me, so I'm not at all opposed to that route. :grin:


    This thread has brought up another point.

    There are certain things that are a part of the trade pool just because they are. This would be things like hot muling, the seed command, HF rushing, HC to SC transfer, Andy bug, Ethereal armour bug, and moving items forward. If you don't like HF rushing or moving items forward, you can join one of our ladders, but the trade pool will be pretty limited.

    However, I'm seeing some practices that have not really been a part of the trade pool start to come up, and I'm wondering how we want to handle that. It turns out these issues are all on the HC side, mostly because we are actually starting to see some HC trading and MPing start up. The two issues I've seen are:

    -ATMA looting dead HC characters
    -moving SC items into HC

    I've been asking people who do that to declare it every time they trade the items, but I'm wondering if we want to want to make a call on if we want to just accept it in the trade pool or ban it from the trade pool, and save ourselves the declaration problem.
     
  15. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    I think trading dead HC items should be banned, and I also think that if you use SC items with a HC character you shouldn't be able to offer the items found with that character as HC.

    Maybe, as well as having the Trader Profile, the poster could also copy and paste their profile to the start of their thread to show any potential traders if they HF rush etc.
     
  16. 6dollarburger

    6dollarburger Banned

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    I have a couple comments as a player considering branching into HC.
    I agree. Dead HC characters are meant to be inaccessible, and even though ATMA gives them that functionality, it's not an intentional game mechanic. If you lose your 1337 itamz, sorry. You chose to play a HC character.

    Secondly, I view HC and SC characters as separate entities. It's as if a player merged his RRM/RWM and Vanilla stashes yet traded with modded and unmodded users. If you want to move SC items over, fine. I disagree with it, but there's nothing I can do. But I would feel cheated if I realized my HC equipment wasn't truly HC.
     
  17. Deaddave

    Deaddave IncGamers Member

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    when i first started reading this i thought it would be a good idea but now thinking about it, as gg said it will seperate the spf more so i say keep it as it is and not have hte cheak list.
    what i would like is:traders profiles at the start of a trade threads. multi player profiles saying basic things like version mods and the like. the main thing i would like to see on these profiles is what times and days you can normaly play on. this would help with arranging and hosting games.

    thats my 3.333333 cents
     
  18. Kefir-Tribe

    Kefir-Tribe IncGamers Member

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    Some good points in this thread.

    This is not of my business anymore. But if I was allowed to decide, looting dead HC chars with ATMA, moving HC --> SC and SC --> HC would be strictly banned.
     
  19. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    basically, what Deaddave said... as jjscud mentioned, anyone who trades needs to accept the fact that this is the way it's been forever, so unless there's a community-wide restart, hotmuling, HF, mapseeds & all are here to stay. I don't like mapseed, and I'm not particularily fond of HF rushes, but the taint is probably too deep to do much about it now.

    I guess it turns out my writeup was useless, lol - please disregard.


    And yeah, I'm against HC looting, and very, very opposed to SC --> HC.
     
  20. jjscud

    jjscud IncGamers Member

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    Just adding my couple cents. I also thingk that SC - HC and HC looting should be completely banned from the trade/mp pool. Happily, these are the two items that have been generally considered illigit and I don't think our trade pool is tainted with these so its not to late.
     

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