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Infinity/BotD/Doom

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by sorctq, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. sorctq

    sorctq IncGamers Member

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    Infinity/BotD/Doom

    Hi All,

    Quick question for you guys.

    Right now I'm a 90+ meteorb who has spent far too much time farming (entire levels on Meph/Pindle). I've amassed a decent amount of goods at this point so I've decided to start a lightning sorc.

    I have a very good griffs, perf 20% light esch, and some other decent gear for her. I also have two Infinities, a BotD, and a few other decent runewords.

    My question is this: If I use Infinity, would it make sense for me to give the merc (holy freeze) a BotD or to get a defiance merc and just use doom? Or should I give him my other Infinity?

    I plan to go the typical light route of 20CB/Light/CL/LM, etc. I will use this char mostly for Baal and Nihl runs.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Dennis_KoreanGuy

    Dennis_KoreanGuy IncGamers Member

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    Get a holy freeze merc with Infinity.

    For PvM and PvP both, Lightning/ES is much better way. Trust me on this, ES will help you a ton. Easily worth sacrificing 10~15k lightning dmg.

    Use HoTo instead of Eschuta's.
     
  3. sorctq

    sorctq IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the reply.

    I'm not sure I phrased this correctly or not, but, the main gist of my question is whether or not I should equip the merc with Infinity too since I will have Infinity equiped on switch with the sorc which I can use for immunes.

    Also - I'm fine on resists thanks to +17-20 life +5 res small charms so I think the Esch might work better than a HoTo for the shield/orb switch.
     
  4. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    I'd still put 1 on your merc - that way you can keep your damage high. Trying to hit the FCR breakpoints with infinity is a pain at 105% and near impossible I think at 117%. I mainly use HF mercs to help me teleport in relative safety.
     
  5. sorctq

    sorctq IncGamers Member

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    Wouldn't the -55 LR more than make up for the lack of damage done by the slow cast rate?
     
  6. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    yes, I think your damage would be higher if you cary infinity your self. You can still hit the 63/78 FCR breakpoints easily. You could go for 105/78 I belive, but other than a faster tele the 105 part won't help you much. I think the issue may be more of the loss of other mods from weapon, shield and armor (you kinda need viper magi to get any decent FCR with infininty).

    Hmm, maybe time for a spreadsheet and comparison? Eschuta/Spirit/CoH vs Infinity/Vipermagi. Either way you'd probably use Griffon, Arachnids, Magefists, and War Trav's.
     
  7. sorctq

    sorctq IncGamers Member

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    I think realistically four scenarios should be evaluated:

    1.
    Sorc w/Infinity
    Merc w/Infinity

    2.
    Sorc w/Infinity
    Merc w/BotD or 3os eth tombreaver

    3.
    Sorc w/Infinity
    Merc w/Doom

    4.
    Sorc w/ HoTo (or Esch)/Spirit
    Merc w/Infinity

    A high level (90+ merc) can do over 9k damage with an upped tombreaver at a very fast attack speed with Fortitude equiped. Add in a 17 or 24% lifeleech (Amn + Amn + Ohm + Andy hat) and I can't imagine him dying against anything he can leech from. Even Doom with a defiance Merc would be pretty amazing - the huge AC bonus with freeze. Factor in an eth glitched sacred Fort at ~4k def, eth Andy's at ~500, the ice shield which activates with Fort, and your merc will have an astronomically high defense.

    Cost is not that much of an issue... I have plenty of farmed items and I've rolled some very lucky GCs.
     
  8. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    too late to edit - just thought I'd add Hoto/Spirit/Enigma into the mix I'll also add Mara's and 2x SOJ's, anni and torch to the base comparision. Let's do lvl 90 for base comparison also. I'll try to do the sorc damage comparison.

    I'm not real sure how to compare merc set ups. You can probably look at damge for Might with Doom/BotD/Tomb Reaver/Obedience/Infinity or HF with the same setups. But there's more to it than just damage. Fort is probably the preferable armor for damage reguardless. But I also like Stone for FHR. Andy's (Ral'd) or Vamp Gaze (IAS jewel) are good helms. I'll leave the merc comparison for somone else.
     
  9. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    I've been thinking about merc setups for a bit.

    Doom and BotD are nice because they come with IAS. But you'll want some FHR out of your armor - not much chance on helm, so that leaves Stone as a good companion for BotD or Doom. I'd then use Vamp Gaze (socket?) with BotD as it comes with plenty of IAS and leech, but you'd still want some DR%. You'd probably want that setup in a HF merc. For Doom + Stone I'd still go with Gaze over Andy's. You'll have less leech, but probably enough. If you use a might merc then you'll have plenty of damage, and more damage = more leeching. I think a 3 socket Tomb Reaver would be similar to BotD.

    The other way to go would be to stay with a HF merc, but use Obediance. You loose the IAS and leech, but gain 40% FHR. That frees up your armor for Fortitude. I'd then use Andy's for a few more added Leech and IAS over gaze. You don't get any DR%, but the damage should make up for it.

    If your merc carries Infinity (or insight for that matter) then you need to get everything from your armor + helm. You'll need a HF merc if you want the chilling effect. Then I'd go Andy's (um'd) for the resists, IAS and Leech along with Leviathon (shael'd) for DR% and FHR. This gets you less FHR and IAS than the other setups, and you may not max fire resistance. But that's the tradeoff for making your merc carry the infinity.
     
  10. sorctq

    sorctq IncGamers Member

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    Magechick, you bring up some really good points.

    The only thing I've thought of is to Shael the Andy's helm if I go the Tombreaver route to get a 20% FHR (Tombreaver has +30-50 resist/all so his resists would be maxed). I know 20% is not much, but the damage would be unbelievable. The Tombreaver also has 3 slots which I would most likely socket with an Ohm, Shael, and Amn for an extra 50% enhanced damge, 20% IAS (bringing it to 80) and an extra 7% lifeleech.

    I think Fort is much better than Stone. The 300% damage virtually triples what your merc leeches back. The main selling point on the Fort for me is the chilling armor proc. It gives him the defense of almost a defiance merc.

    Let me know what you think.
     
  11. WrathTalon

    WrathTalon IncGamers Member

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    It absolutely does, Sorctq. If you get max (117%) FCR, you'll have a 12-frame lightning/CL attack. But with only 40% FCR (20 from Magefist, 20 from Arach), you'll still hit a 15-frame attack. Sure, 12-frame is 25% faster than 15-frame: so with max FCR, you'll deal 25% more damage over time. But this absolutely PALES in comparison with the MASSIVE extra damage you'll get from the -55 LR if you hold Infinity yourself. And the higher the monster's resistance, the more the -55 LR from Infinity helps you. If you're holding Infinity yourself, who cares if you're casting 25% slower?--the -55 LR alone will roughly double to quadruple your damage output, depending on monster resists... If you're thinking about purely rushing and MFing, then the slightly slower teleport speed might be something to consider... But if not, I think you'll be much happier holding Infinity yourself, even if this does limit you to 40% FCR.

    (I'm assuming you'll be using CoH rather than Vipermagi with this build. The extra resists, plus-skills, and PDR from CoH are indispensable if you're holding Infinity yourself; and though Vipermagi would give you 30 more FCR, for a total of 70%, this would only increase your L/CL attack from 15 to 14 frames, definitely not worth what you sacrifice by wearing Vipermagi.)

    Any of the merc combos would be godly. I'd probably take a HF merc with Obedience first; a HF merc with eBotD second; and a Defiance merc with Doom third; but this may depend on your own defense. If you're wearing CoH and a good CoA (along with Mara, Anni, and Torch) (and I would suggest Shadow Dancer for boots, for the FHR), you'll have 39% PRD, 60% FHR, and maxed resists. Combine with one point in Frozen Armor, and you'll be able to tank most monster packs easily while frying them with your little pinkie. Then I'd use a HF merc with Obedience. But if you're not using CoH/CoA/Shadow Dancer, and find yourself taking too much damage, you could use the Defiance merc with Doom, for the extra safety....

    A suggestion: if you'll be running Chaos with any frequency, I'd ditch the A2 merc entirely. My Infinity-toting Chaos-running sorc used an A1 Rogue merc instead, equipped with CoH, Andy's, and an Ice bow. The Ice was awesome: gave her a level 18 Holy Freeze, and when combined with the 25% to cast Frost Novas with every arrow, meant that she actually slowed monsters down even more than my old A2 HF merc did. Rogues laugh at Iron Maiden, and keep on firing. They don't tank for you, of course. But on the other hand, with Infinity in your arms, a fully synergized Light/CL attack, and CoA/CoH/Shadow Dancer, you won't NEED any merc to tank for you. You'll fry everything before it can do any real damage...
     
  12. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    yes, resists are good so you could sheal either andy's or gaze for some FHR. That alone will take your merc from 15 frame recovery to 11 - probably good enough. Going all the way to 60% FHR (from stone) will lower it to 8 frames.

    I'm not sure that you should add some more IAS to tomb reaver. 70% IAS total will hit the next breakpoint for his normal attack, but his next jab breakpoint (which he does like 80%+ of the time) isn't until 89. Instead of Ohm and Shael, I'd look to 2x IAS/ED jewel's. They don't have to be 40/15's or anything that good - even 20/15's would be awsome. Unless you can add 29 more IAS, I'd just use 2x Ohm's. Check out this link for breakpoints.
    http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=495478

    I generally agree that fort is better than stone, but the 300% off weapon ed% is basically added to the ed% that is already on the weapon, so it is actaully about a 75-90% increase in total damage depending on the various types of weapons were discussing. (i.e. the 400% BotD just becomes a 700% BotD, noticable but not not even 2x damage.)

    Stone vs Fort may come down to survivability. My best merc right now has a eth Great Poleaxe Obedience, Andy's (ral'd) and a Leviathon. He does awsome with just that setup. I can't remember him every dying except to IM on chaos runs.

    I've started some work on a lighting sorc gear comparison (carrying infinity or not). There's more to it than just the loss of FCR. You're also loosing a lot of +skills, resists and other mods. Overall your damage is much better, but there's a significant cost to it. I'll post the comparision of builds in a new thread as this started as a merc question.
     

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