imbuing question for those formula guys

[pncwd]

imbuing question for those formula guys

calling thrugg, RTB, and krischan

When imbuing an item a couple of things must be met
1. character has to be lvl 8 in order to get the quest first.
2. item must not be anything other than a white or eth item.

Now with that in mind and known by most, here are my questions

1. what is the formula for figuring out what mod alvl the item can get
2. does that formula change when using circlets and diadems
3. and is there anyway to trick the formula with your characters lvl, ie using a lvl 8 mule in hell lvl for the imbue quest. I guess a better way to put this is, at what point if any does the lvl of the item or game lvl override the characters lvl if at all.

 

[RaoulDuke]

1. Off the Arreat Summit:

Your character level determines what magical properties your new rare item can have, so characters with higher levels have more, but not always better, options available.

2. More off the Summit:

The Rare item will be created in the same way as any other Rare Item is created. The level of magical properties selected is set to Character Level + 6. So higher level characters will have more Magical Prefixes and Suffixes options available to them which may explain why higher level characters receive "better" stuff. This also explains why low level Imbues often result in "junk" stats. Remember, Circlets can increase the Character Level.

So, yes, increased magic level does work while imbuing. Remember, there are a few other items (wands & orbs) that gain magic levels too.

3. The items ilvl (where it was found) has no bearing on what the imbue is. It'll always choose affixes based on clvl.

Hopefully this helps, and isn't incorrect.

 

[pncwd]

1. Off the Arreat Summit:

Your character level determines what magical properties your new rare item can have, so characters with higher levels have more, but not always better, options available.

2. More off the Summit:

The Rare item will be created in the same way as any other Rare Item is created. The level of magical properties selected is set to Character Level + 6. So higher level characters will have more Magical Prefixes and Suffixes options available to them which may explain why higher level characters receive "better" stuff. This also explains why low level Imbues often result in "junk" stats. Remember, Circlets can increase the Character Level.

So, yes, increased magic level does work while imbuing. Remember, there are a few other items (wands & orbs) that gain magic levels too.

3. The items ilvl (where it was found) has no bearing on what the imbue is. It'll always choose affixes based on clvl.

Hopefully this helps, and isn't incorrect.

I am not sure what you mean by magic lvl, you cant use items that are blue to imbue, they have to be white and or at least normal.

now some times with the formulas that are used certain lvls over ride others, I cant remember an example right off, but it is something like if ilvl>mlvl then alvl=ilvl or vise versa. anyway that is what i am wondering about the imbues.

I know that the clvl is figured in, but lets say that when imbuing in norm difficulty your clvl>area lvl so the clvl is used, but in hell lvl the area lvl>clvl therfore the area lvl is used.

That is why I asked for those great formula gurus.

 

[RaoulDuke]

I am not sure what you mean by magic lvl, you cant use items that are blue to imbue, they have to be white and or at least normal.

All items, including whites, have a lvl based upon where they are found.

When it comes to a socketed white item, the number of sockets available are based on where it is found. An item in found in normal might only spawn 3-4 sockets (ie crystal sword), but be found with 6 sockets in Hell. I was simply explaining that where the white was found has no bearing on imbuing. Imbuing is not like crafting.

now some times with the formulas that are used certain lvls over ride others, I cant remember an example right off, but it is something like if ilvl>mlvl then alvl=ilvl or vise versa. anyway that is what i am wondering about the imbues.

I know that the clvl is figured in, but lets say that when imbuing in norm difficulty your clvl>area lvl so the clvl is used, but in hell lvl the area lvl>clvl therfore the area lvl is used.

I can understand the confusion here. Whether in normal, nm or hell, you still imbue at clvl+6 (+ any increased magic level). Its like gambling, you'll get the same possible items regardless of difficulty. Otherwise, why would people save their imbue quests? You'd be limited to Act1 affixes in each case.

 

[pncwd]

All items, including whites, have a lvl based upon where they are found.

When it comes to a socketed white item, the number of sockets available are based on where it is found. An item in found in normal might only spawn 3-4 sockets (ie crystal sword), but be found with 6 sockets in Hell. I was simply explaining that where the white was found has no bearing on imbuing. Imbuing is not like crafting.

Yeah that is known as the area lvl, which can vary depending on if it came from a sparkley chest or a normal chest, also known as the ilvl, or mlvl. Ilvl being the item lvl which is determined by where the item is found or what the mlvl(monster lvl) in which dropped it. There are some increases with that as well, unique monsters get +2 lvls and super uniques get +3 while there minions get a +2. This part I get.

I can understand the confusion here. Whether in normal, nm or hell, you still imbue at clvl+6 (+ any increased magic level). Its like gambling, you'll get the same possible items regardless of difficulty. Otherwise, why would people save their imbue quests? You'd be limited to Act1 affixes in each case.

So now to this part,
you are saying that reguarless of what difficulty you do it in, that will not over ride any other numbers, or that it is simply not figured in to the formula.
when Gambling the difficulty and act have some bearing on what lvl items you get. Your character lvl is figured into that formula, along with magic find. Act 1 hell cannot spawn, while gambling, certain TC 87 items, while Act 5 hell can. So what I am saying with that is that gambling formula is way different than that of imbuing.

 

[Orphan]

when Gambling the difficulty and act have some bearing on what lvl items you get. Your character lvl is figured into that formula, along with magic find. Act 1 hell cannot spawn, while gambling, certain TC 87 items, while Act 5 hell can. So what I am saying with that is that gambling formula is way different than that of imbuing.

Magic find has no affect on gambling at all. The chances to get uniques, sets, rares, etc are not affected by magic find. Only the character level matters in gambling. The act, or difficulty does not.


Edit:
Imbuing an item essentially makes it a rare item, so it follows the same procedure as a rare item generation, with the exception that the ilvl is your clvl + 4.


The amount of mods that a rare item can have are determined by the ilvl:

At ilvls 1-30, there's a 40% chance of 1 affix and a 20% chance each of 2, 3 or 4 affixes.
At ilvls 31-50, there's a 60% chance of 2 affixes and a 20% chance each of 3 or 4 affixes.
At ilvls 51-70, there's an 80% chance of 3 affixes and a 20% chance of 4 affixes.
At ilvls 71+, there's a 100% chance of 4 affixes.


To determine the type of mods you have available to you, you'll need to also know the qlvl of the item. This can be found in weapons.txt, armor.txt or misc.txt (or you can check out the link I'll post below).

The formula you were talking about before was probably this:
If (ilvl>99) then {ilvl=99}
if (qlvl>ilvl) then {ilvl=qlvl} ;** see note below
if (magic_lvl>0) then {alvl=ilvl+magic_lvl}
else
{
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
}
If (alvl>99) then {alvl=99}


Check out the Item Generation guide, at http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=392254. There's an imbue section, and an affix level section.

 

[RTB]

MThe amount of mods that a rare item can have are determined by the ilvl:

That's for crafted items. Rares can have 2 - 6 affixes.

 

[pncwd]

Well that is what I was looking for,
so when imbuing a circlet or diadem, lets say that it is an ilvl of 85 (found in the pit from a normal monster) and I use a clvl of 8 to imbue it, then it would only get an ilvl of 12 after the imbue.

[part of this is just me thinking on screen]

if a circlet was found on hell baal and therefore being a ilvl of 99 then would this formula apply for the purpose of imbuing

If (ilvl>99) then {ilvl=99}
if (qlvl>ilvl) then {ilvl=qlvl} ;** see note below
if (magic_lvl>0) then {alvl=ilvl+magic_lvl}
else
{
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
}
If (alvl>99) then {alvl=99}

and if this would apply then it should apply for an ilvl of 85 if using a clvl that is lower than the ilvl.

Or am i just trying to hard to figure a way around something that I cant get around? LOL this would not be uncommon for me to do.

BTW, I looked through the arreat summit and blizzards web site for those formulas and I can never find them until someone post them and then I never save the stupid things to my favorites.
Thanks for posting that formula up,

The only question really that I have now is, when imbuing an item that has a qlvl of over 75 with a character that is clvl 8, would it be possible to get the +skills mods along with the other mods below alvl of 75.

Based off of what has been posted so far I would gather that it could, it would just not get as many mods compared to a clvl that was higher.
IE,
ilvl of a diadem is 85
clvl doing the imbue is 8
new ilvl of the diadem is now 12
but the qlvl is 85 for diadems therefore allowing
alvls of 85 to be received but only a chance of 4 mods possible.

 

[krischan]

The item level has no influence on the result when imbuing. The item doesn't enter the mentioned algorithm with the item level coming from the level of the monster or chest that dropped it, but with its ilvl being set to character level + 4, as Orphan said in the edited version of his posting. The nice thing about diadems is that they have a very high magic level (+18) and a high base qlvl (85) - high enough to get an alvl 99 item all the time, no matter which level your character is when imbuing, because the ilvl gets replaced by the qlvl if it's lower and the magic level is added on top of that.

See here

if (qlvl>ilvl) then {ilvl=qlvl}

and here

if (magic_lvl>0) then {alvl=ilvl+magic_lvl}
else
{
...
}
if (alvl>99) then {alvl=99}

 

[pncwd]

The item level has no influence on the result when imbuing. The item doesn't enter the mentioned algorithm with the item level coming from the level of the monster or chest that dropped it, but with its ilvl being set to character level + 4, as Orphan said in the edited version of his posting. The nice thing about diadems is that they have a very high magic level (+18) and a high base qlvl (85) - high enough to get an alvl 99 item all the time, no matter which level your character is when imbuing, because the ilvl gets replaced by the qlvl if it's lower and the magic level is added on top of that.

See here

if (qlvl>ilvl) then {ilvl=qlvl}

and here

if (magic_lvl>0) then {alvl=ilvl+magic_lvl}
else
{
...
}
if (alvl>99) then {alvl=99}

thats is what I was thinking after reading over that post several times, after my post, but thank you very much for clearing that one up. Now I just have to find those white diadems, and get a bunch of mules to lvl 8, LOL.