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im dying in hell. any ideas?

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by Traunt, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Traunt

    Traunt IncGamers Member

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    im dying in hell. any ideas?

    Hi,

    i play a single player assassin and ive just entered hell difficulty.

    im lvl 73 have maxed tiger strike and dragon tail and drain all my life and mana back with a point in cobra strike.

    is it worth investing in Pheonix strike now? or should i get another elemental charge?

    i just cant beat fire immunes (which is everything)
     
  2. Lazer LXXVII

    Lazer LXXVII IncGamers Member

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    I dont know what to tell you about martial arts, i do traps.

    But put a point into fade (assuming you have good +skills), that will raise your resistances by a good bit, at least keeping you alive a bit longer.
     
  3. Von Lazuli

    Von Lazuli IncGamers Member

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    I assume you are using high damage boots? If not, start doing that now.

    Then, use Dtalon against the fire immunes... You should probably have Dtalon around for bosses anyway.

    Crushing Blow is your friend...

    Laz
     
  4. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    What are your stats? Gear? Skill point layout? For all I know, you could be running a Base-Vit naked martial artist with dual-claws and no points invested in claw block.
     
  5. Traunt

    Traunt IncGamers Member

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    ok heres a run down of my equipment

    Belt: string of ears

    Rings: raven frost and a rare ring that adds lots of resistance

    Amulet: nokazon relic

    Boots: gore rider war boots

    Armour: Duriel's shell

    Helm: Natalya's grim helm

    Gloves: rare +2 martial arts 20% increased attack speed

    duel claws: 2x scissors quhab with +1 to assassin skills and incresed attack speed

    in the other weapon slot i have two claws which add to shadow diciplines that i swap to before casting them

    i have (with added skills) (approximatley)
    24 in tiger strike
    24 in dragon tail
    11 in burst of speed
    14 in shadow master
    10 in venom
    5 in cobra strike

    and my resistances are (in hell)

    fire: 37
    cold: 27
    lighting: -13
    Poison: 14


    attributes:
    strength - 226
    dex - 219
    vit - 80
    nrg - 30

    i dont think ive forgotten anythng
     
  6. Von Lazuli

    Von Lazuli IncGamers Member

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    Yeah... so base-vita dual Claw assassin with no claw block...

    SSoG... this is up to you...

    Laz
     
  7. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Well, that answers my question.

    You're dying in Hell because you've completely neglected all forms of defense. There are lots of tools designed to keep you alive in Hell- you've got Claw Block (which you've neglected). You've got Fade which helps you max resists (which you've neglected). You've got Vitality, which adds a bunch of life (which you've neglected). You've got Psychic Hammer, Cloak of Shadows, and Mind Blast (which you've neglected). You've basically built a glass cannon with absolutely no defenses. It's okay, we all do it our first time through, but the simple fact is that in 1.1x, Hell is *HARD*, so you're going to need a lot of defenses to survive.

    I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but at this point, I think your assassin just isn't viable. It needs a lot more invested in defenses, and you're probably going to be too fragile to level up enough to get there. I'd recommend rebuilding. It's not the most fun of things, but that's what we do- we learn from our mistakes, and we rebuild. In the future, if you retry this Assassin, here are some very important tips:

    Tip #1- Vitality is EVERYTHING. One of my favorite Diable II quotes is "life is good when your life is good". Every character needs gobs and gobs and gobs of life in order to survive in Hell. How do we get all that life? The simplest method is simply investing in Vit. While Str and Ex are necessary in order to equip your gear, once your gear is equipped they offer very little benefit (unless you're going for a titan build, which is NOT recommended for beginners). Basically, find out what the heaviest piece of equipment you'll be wearing is, and then invest EXACTLY enough Strength to equip that piece of gear, without going over. And remember to count Strength Bonuses! If your heaviest piece of gear requires 120 strength, and your gloves give you 20 strength, you only need to invest 100 points into strength (after which your gloves give you +20 and then you can equip your heavy piece).

    If you rebuilt that Assassin with max-vit, you'd probably shave up to 100 points off of both Strength and Dexterity. That's an additional 200 points in Vitality. That's the same thing as an extra *600* hit points. That's *HUGE*. I'd imagine that might wind up DOUBLING your total life right now- and twice as much life means you can take twice as much damage before dying. That's a very good thing.

    Tip #2- Resistances are *EXTREMELY* important, especially for melee builds who are going to get hit. In Hell, elemental attacks deal anywhere between 2 to 4 times more damage than physical attacks. Think about that for a second- if you're not protected, you're taking up to FOUR TIMES as much damage as someone with maxed resists. Maxing your resists is EXTREMELY important. Sometimes it can be hard, for sure... but as an Assassin, you have the easiest solution right at your fingertips- Fade! Fade offers an easy 60+% Resist All. With Fade instead of Burst of Speed, you'd easily max out everything but your Lightning Resists right now (and those would be very close). Remember, Resists are important (especially Fire and Lightning).

    Tip #3- Additional sources of damage reduction are essential. These can take many forms. 75% Shield Block, for instance, is essentially the same thing as 75% damage reduction against physical attacks. Weapon Block can give you 50-60% reduction against ALL attacks (even elemental), although it doesn't work while you're moving. Your String of Ears offers %DR, which makes a huge difference, and Fade will give you more %DR (you get 1% DR for every slvl of Fade, counting +skills, so slvl30 Fade = 30% DR). Your %DR is capped at 50%, so keep that in mind. There's also PDR or MDR, which make a huge difference if you assemble them in huge quantities, but for now you can probably ignore them and worry about simpler methods of reducing damage. Finally, you've got Defense, which Assassins have a hard time maxing and for this discussion isn't that important.

    Tip #4- If enemies don't attack you, they don't hurt you. How can you keep enemies from attacking you? Well, if they're attacking your Merc or your Shadow, they're not attacking you. If they're blinded by Cloak of Shadows, they're not attacking you. If they're stunned or Converted by Mind Blast, they're not attacking you. If they're in knockback-lock from Psychic Hammer, they're not attacking you. If they're being killed offscreen by your traps, they're not attacking you. If they're slowed to a crawl, they're not attacking you. If they're kept at a distance by Blade Fury and Knockback, they're not attacking you.

    If I were to rebuild your assassin, I would leave Burst of Speed at slvl 1 and focus on Fade, instead. I would either get Weapon Block up to slvl 16 after +skills for 56% Block, or else I'd equip a shield and invest enough into Dexterity to keep max block. I'd keep my Str and Dex as low as possible to equip gear and keep max block, and spend the rest on Vitality. I'd make sure to invest in a Shadow, and I'd make absolutely CERTAIN to use Cloak of Shadows, Psychic Hammer, and Mind Blast *ALL THE TIME* (don't invest more than one point- they're 1-point wonders- just be sure to use them to keep enemies from attacking you). I'd advance slowly and let the enemy engage my Merc before jumping into battle. I would also make sure to max out my resists, and if I could, I'd also get 50% DR. If you did all of those things, I think you'd find that your assassin was much, much sturdier.



     
  8. Traunt

    Traunt IncGamers Member

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    Ok, thanks for that
    i do have a point in mindblast and cloak of shadows, but yeh
    i think ill start again, thanks heaps for the tips
     
  9. elvenswordman

    elvenswordman IncGamers Member

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    Well, i've been building MA sins since 1.09... I know i am not the guy that knows all, but i have some things i can say to you:

    1- you should have life and mana leech from your gear... Tiger and Cobra strike are slower to charge up than use a maxed finishing move straight, with no charges: Damage over time is higher when you just use talon or dragon claw than when you charge tiger up and then release... So, you can think about cobra strike: if you have nice mana and life leech from your gear, you dont need to worry about charge it up. Now, you've chosen dragon tail, and that explains the use of tiger strike, but... Its hard in hell mode without another elemental atack or a strong physical atack... Dont know what to say for your char now...

    2- It seems that with kicks (talon, ...) you get an str bonus for damage... Its ok, but if you were building a claw finisher sin, you should spent points only in dex, cause it adds same amount of damage that str does... And raising dex, you benefit from defence, atack rating, ...

    3- I particulary would spend some more points in vit in the future, so i would get more life points...

    4- Damage Reduction is a very important mod to get for a melee sin: It doesnt have the high defence pallys or barbs have, so you got to minimize damage you take... Same goes for elemental resistances... Thats why i think natalya's set is an awesome set for a martial artist... Too bad the boots are medium damage, so kicks aren't good wearing this gear... If you are going for the kicks, get the higher damage you can get from boots, because its your 'real' weapon!

    5- skills:

    usually 1 point in BoS get the job done (lets assume you get some +_ to skills). Unless you have +10 points to BoS, 11 is too much!
    Imo, venom is a skill you should eiter max or forget it... Particulary, i like to use Phoenix strike: With some practice, u get 3 elements atacks, and you can choose wich you will use; The cold charge is specially good for crowd control because it freezes almost all monsters... But, as a main skill for fighting imunes, you should max it.... So you'll need to choose if you'll buy this skill or try maxing venom...
    For a good pvm sin char, i recomend to get 1 point in death sentry... It helps a lot when fighting a crowd... In cow levels, you just knock 1 cow down, lay a death sentry and watch the other cows fall to the ground... It's really something!


    Well, i'd max venom and forget about phoenix strike now... You still need to get some weapon block points if you want to use dual claw, or (as some1 advice me in a thread i start some days ago) use a good shield (SS would be the best choice).
    Dont forget merc choice! It'll be the suport you need to face the hell difficulties...
     
  10. elvenswordman

    elvenswordman IncGamers Member

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    I'm stunned now... I guess SSoG said everything... I was trying to be optimistic when writing my reply (above) and when i posted it, there was his reply, saying everything you need to know... :smiley:

    Well, ty for the class and the straight talk! It was nice for me too(!!!!!): reading it all and remember things i knew and even learn something new...

    :tongue:
     
  11. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Either post here or PM me when you start on the rebuild. I'd be more than happy to help you plan out things ahead of time so that by the time you hit Hell, you'll have yourself a rough-and-tumble Assassin ready to kick some demon butt.

    Thanks for the compliment, but I'm sure you could offer so much more advice on a melee sin than I could. I haven't built a martial artist in quite a few patches. For instance, I never even stopped to consider that I might deal just as much damage over time if I skipped Tiger Strike as if I grabbed it in the first place.:smiley:



     

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