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I'm back, yet again! (also: give NF some feedback)

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Nightfish, May 1, 2005.

  1. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    I'm back, yet again! (also: give NF some feedback)

    Well, I'm finally back yet again! Whee! Thanks to everyone involved in making this possible. (Serdash, Addicted2Macs, Elly, teh mods, etc) :clap:

    So, after nearly a year of absence from D2 I'm back. Feels good. :) Maybe you're wondering where I've been, if so, read on. (if not stop reading now) Well, for one I really needed a break because I really did a lot of MFing and after the completion of my septavirate I was kinda left without goals. University needed more time, too, so I went into hibernation. Replayed a couple older games and kinda recently got into warcraft 3 for a while.

    It's actually a pretty fun game but the community sucks really, really bad. If you haven't seen these people you aren't going to believe it. You may have noticed that I have the habit of coming up with rather unconventional ideas and sharing them with others. Now, when you post a weird idea on this or any other d2 forum I know you get replies like "wow, great, wouldn't have thought that this works" or something along those lines. If you post it on a WC3 forum you get flamed. Well, actually you get 4 replies saying "too long didn't read" first and then the first ones that actually skimmed through the idea chime in with the hating. :D Yes, shame on me for expecting better. At any rate, after a (short) while this got really old and I decided I missed the community here, so that's why I'm back. :) I'm definetly going to appreciate this place even more than before now. I usually did jump the bandwagon whenever somebody posted one of the "wow this place rules" threads but seeing the other side of how things can be has definetly made an impression on me. So, yeah, enough with the ranting, on to the "gib feedback" part.


    Earlier I spoke of sharing ideas. You may have noticed that I have a tendency to write guides whenever I liked one of my chars. I really enjoy doing because it helps me gather my thoughts, pratices my typing and my english and of course it's nice to give something back to the community. Some people can draw (addicted2macs), some can write stories (stony, kung poo), some live inside the code and help others that way (RTB, Thrugg). I can't do any of those things. :D All I can do is kinda empirical: Try it out in the game, see if it works or not and then write that down. (yes, I'm getting to the point sooner or later. Hm, just noticed that I also have the ability to rant! Go me!)

    Anyways, while I do like writing guides on the chars that were fun to me, part of the reason to write a guide is to have others use it. If it's just a good read but something people won't really try themselves I might as well let it go at the guardian / pat / mat thread. So, if you've been in contact with my guides or just have an opinion I'd appreciate some feedback, as in questions answered:

    - Did you read any of my guides, if so, which?
    - Did you follow any of my guides, if so, which and why?
    - What did you like about the guides and what not?
    - Do you like the focus on HC with poor items or would you prefer guides that focus on SC with uber-twinkage?
    - What future guides would you find useful? (for example: standard build, non-standard build, or maybe general guide on how to build an efficient char, or something I'm not thinking of now?)
    - Are the guides too long / too short / just right?
    - Any specific build you'd like to see? / Old guides I should expand?
    - Anything else you want to share? ;)


    Well, that's it from me for now, thanks for reading and in case you gave any, thanks for your feedback. Please not that I'm not just going to write a guide following the majority if that requires me to completely change my style. The main thing I'm trying to gather from this is an idea of how useful my guides are in their current form and if there are some (smaller) things that I can add / change to make them better.
     
  2. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    Warcraft 3 forums = teh suxx0r.
    Welcome back to the promised land, it is a truely wonderful game, with a great community.
    now, some feedback..
    - Did you read any of my guides, if so, which?
    Just the fishy guide so far.

    - Did you follow any of my guides, if so, which and why?
    Yes, and thanks to you i have 3 fishy pats, although all of which had some variations from your gudie, pretty much all of it was followed.

    - What did you like about the guides and what not?
    the uberness of the build that i tried once in 1.09, didnt like and would have never tried it in 1.10 if you didnt say anything. Oh, and the realistic setup you recommend.

    - Do you like the focus on HC with poor items or would you prefer guides that focus on SC with uber-twinkage?
    i think the best guides do both. The skills shouldn't be very different, but the item section there should be something for HC (safety items), untwinked (kinds of items to look for, or specific mods) and twinking (indlude reasonable and dream items). This wouldnt take too long to write for someone who knows the build, yet hardly any guides bother saying anything but enigma and BoTD. *sigh*

    - What future guides would you find useful? (for example: standard build, non-standard build, or maybe general guide on how to build an efficient char, or something I'm not thinking of now?)
    Most standard builds have been covered, so i say something that is game beatable (in HC) but provides a challeneg and isnt just a killfest.

    - Are the guides too long / too short / just right?
    IMO a guide cannot be too long. the more the better, as long as each section is laid out ok so you dont get lost, cram as much info that is relevent as possible.

    - Any specific build you'd like to see? / Old guides I should expand?
    A punching character guide would be really fun to read and try. obviosuly the difficult bit isnt writing the guide, its doing the character before hand.

    - Anything else you want to share? ;)
    you can have some of my chocolate if you like.
     
  3. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Well, maybe you'll want to take a look at my berserker and my assassin (especially that one). both fit that category pretty much perfectly.

    Thanks for teh feedback. ;) Oh, and I'll have some of that chocolate.
     
  4. Slothman

    Slothman IncGamers Member

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    - Did you read any of my guides, if so, which?
    Probably all of them! i read basically every guide to gain perspective on different play styles and builds that may interest me


    - Did you follow any of my guides, if so, which and why?
    fishymancer guide - when i restarted playing d2 i built a meph runner yet wanted something to run baal (MP games and general runs) that wasnt too needy for great gear (plus to help in my ultimate goal to find the ever elusive immortal king soul cage!)


    - What did you like about the guides and what not?
    They cover basically everything about a type of build and how to play it while still giving large room for personal tastes or different skill/item usage :thumbsup:


    - Do you like the focus on HC with poor items or would you prefer guides that focus on SC with uber-twinkage?
    I like the HC - although i play SC and have accumulated a number of elites etc i never want to rely on the gear (plus im always missing something or other from an 'ultimate' setup) so its great to have a practical gear guide + survivability for me still holds a lot of value


    - What future guides would you find useful? (for example: standard build, non-standard build, or maybe general guide on how to build an efficient char, or something I'm not thinking of now?)
    maybe a simple guide about efficient characters that use class specific sets (generally questions about such set usage pop up every now-and-again..)


    - Are the guides too long / too short / just right?
    just right


    - Any specific build you'd like to see? / Old guides I should expand?
    elite uniques that no one ever uses character or something maybe :scratch:


    - Anything else you want to share? ;)
    Many thanks for your efforts in the community :worship:
     
  5. Steven Q Urkel

    Steven Q Urkel IncGamers Member

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    I've browsed thorugh the fishymancer guide a few times.

    I'm going to try to follow the fishymancer guide. I started a necro recently, the first necro I've ever played and it will be nice to have some guidance for stats/skills/equips/etc.

    Very informative and very thorough.

    Some people think the game is fun when its challenging. I personally think the game is fun when you win, so I prefer to play softcore, twink your characters. Theres a lot of hardcore players on the forum though, so a guide that mentions both options, if possible, would be good for the forum.

    General guide on how to build an effecient character.

    As long as you aren't repeating yourself, and posting relevant info, guides can not be too long imo.

    Keep up the good work.
     
  6. Masas

    Masas IncGamers Member

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    - Did you read any of my guides, if so, which?
    I read your Fishymancer guide, and your HC Berserker guide.

    - Did you follow any of my guides, if so, which and why?
    I followed your Fishymancer guide, and am currently following your HC Berserker barb guide, with my Number 1 HC character! I followed the fishymancer guide, because it was well written, and both skill and gear choices were clearly explained. I followed your HC Berserker guide, because I wanted to start a Septumvirate (or however it's spelled), I allways wanted to make a successful 2H zerker barb, but a 2H Berserker barb sounded very, how to say "dieable" until I read your guide.

    - What did you like about the guides and what not?
    I liked everything about them, from the understandable and effective leveling strategies, to your great sense of humour!

    - Do you like the focus on HC with poor items or would you prefer guides that focus on SC with uber-twinkage?
    I think that coverage of both should be kept.

    - What future guides would you find useful? (for example: standard build, non-standard build, or maybe general guide on how to build an efficient char, or something I'm not thinking of now?)
    Hmm, I'd like a guide on a non-standard build, or a "triple-hybrid".

    - Are the guides too long / too short / just right?
    They're just right in my opinion. Some minor thing could be expanded, but nevermind them.

    - Any specific build you'd like to see? / Old guides I should expand?
    I'd like the fishymancer guide to expanded, showing possible (thou' not recommended by you) outcomes on what to do with the remaining skill points.

    - Anything else you want to share? ;)
    Gogo Nightfish! Guidewriting God!
     
  7. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Thank you for the feedback so far, this is turning out to be just as helpful (and encouraging) as I expected. :) I'm also glad at least a few people know I wrote stuff besides the fishymancer guide. :lol: (Masas, how did the barb turn out?)

    It's also interesting to hear the different things people want guides to be. I'm not sure I can make everybody happy because I am just not that good at thinking up gear that makes huge numbers show up on the LCS. My specialty is squeezing the most out of mid level gear. But I'll try to keep everything that has been and will be posted here in mind.

    Hm... If it seems like there's enough interest for me to write a new guide I think I'll host a HC tourney of some kind and let the winner pick the next guide among a dozen options or so. How's that sound for a prize? Kinda like a2m giving away his drawing skills, only that the results are less pretty. :D
     
  8. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    I think for a HC tourney, that will probably take alot of time / effort for people to win, you'd have to offer a bigger carrot.
    Maybe name the guide after the winner as well if its a new build idea (not like berserker guide, because that is just a regular(ish) build. If theres something original about it then you can name it what you like.) for example the 'fartadin guide by nightfish'.
     
  9. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, probably true. I'm not sure it's a good idea at all, anyway. I would offer items as well but that's kinda pointless since while I do have several juicy spares, all my HC items are found with the FE Mod which makes them barely better than outright hacked.
     
  10. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    Fishymancer and 2-handed Tigerstrike assasin.

    No.

    I liked the Tigerstrike guide because it was an unusal build, that I hadn't thought would work, and because it really turned me on to Cloak Of Shadows. Your Fishymancer guide was just really awesome:) It's nice that the guides are very thorough and it's very interesting/inspiring to read a detailed analysis of skills/gameplay/equipment.

    Don't play Hardcore, but it doesn't take too much imagination to adjust a given guide to SC.

    Maybe a pure Maul bear, using Ribcracker or other big weapon...the one in the druid forum is from 1.09. I don't really care, since I'm sure that any guide you write will be quality stuff.

    Just right:) They definitely should not be shorter.
     
  11. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Thanks, Chim, any particular reason why, despite liking the assassin guide, you didn't try it for yourself? I understand the meaning of "No", but maybe you'd like to elaborate a little. ;)
     
  12. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    Elaborate...Well I'm relatively new to 1.10 and I'm currently working on finishing 1 of every class (just missing my Concentrate barb), and also want to do some heavy duty MF to get some sweet items. I don't really have the charms/good items to pull of "oddball" builds yet, so I'm just waiting, maybe later...Also I'm not a huge fan of Assasins and there are plenty of builds on my list that I really want to do before getting to 2-handed Tigerstrike sins. If only I had more time:( But I really enjoy reading guides, even if I'm never actually going to play that particular build. Especially good constructive ones like yours:)
     
  13. WhiskeyJack

    WhiskeyJack IncGamers Member

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    - Did you read any of my guides, if so, which?
    Read the fishy mancer and tiger-strike 'sin

    - Did you follow any of my guides, if so, which and why?
    Started the fishymancer...but due to boredom with the char, never finished him (no offense- reflection of taste in play style- they guide was excellent- what can I say, I like pallies, although I'm considering some kind of melee mancer in the future, but that's way down the list).

    - What did you like about the guides and what not?
    From what I recall, clearly written and informative, with good tips on tactics.

    - Do you like the focus on HC with poor items or would you prefer guides that focus on SC with uber-twinkage?
    I play semi-twinked SC, and well, I like guides that allow for poor items, since they focus more on skill and how to play than guides that say 'equip botd, put points in these skills, and become walking death machine' Actually, any guide I read that has 'you really want a botd/other ueber runeword' suggested at any point I quite reading. I also don't read guides that focus on PvP for the most part. I don't mind gear options for wealthy/avg/poor, but I don't like gear to be the focus of playability (with the limited exceptions of highly specialized chars depending on a certain gear for existence).

    - What future guides would you find useful? (for example: standard build, non-standard build, or maybe general guide on how to build an efficient char, or something I'm not thinking of now?)
    I like the idea of a general guide on character planning. A guide on developing tactics or strategies would be interesting too (maybe you and jiansonnz could collaborate?)

    - Are the guides too long / too short / just right?
    I second the motion that so long as the info is good and you don't needlessly repeart yourself, guidelength is not an issue.

    - Any specific build you'd like to see? / Old guides I should expand?
    Actually, I need to go through your guides again and see what's there- is there a collection of NF guides on a site, or do I just need to parse through the stickied guides thread?

    - Anything else you want to share? ;)
    Um...how's this: My brother-in-law and his two team mates just won the Wold Baking Cup in Paris (Le coupe du mond de boulangerie- pardon my bad french writing). Granted, it's not related to guides, but hey, thought I'd mention it (it's worth sharing- actually, i think I'll make a thread)

    WJ
     
  14. midnightvulture

    midnightvulture IncGamers Member

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    Welcome back Nightfish.

    1. I've read all of your guides, but only made a fishymancer (my first pat btw, thanks). He was not gear dependant, and I had no gear, which worked nicely.
    2. Your guides are some of the best I've seen. Tons of info, clearly written, well thought out, and they tend to allow for some flexibility on the part of the player.
    3. I like that you try to provide advice for rich and poor folks alike in your guides.
    4. I think the standard guide on how to build an efficient character would be nice. I've picked up a lot of that from reading various guides around here, but having it spelled out couldn't hurt.
    5. The guides are a great length. I guess they could be longer, if you have more to say.

    mv
     
  15. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Actually my general guide will cover tactics as well as stats, skills and items. I wasn't aware that jiansonnz was creating a guide of his own, maybe we could work together, depending on how much our playstyles differ.


    Well, I don't have my own section or site yet. One of the things I can't do is to build webpages and host stuff.
     
  16. Sint Nikolaas

    Sint Nikolaas IncGamers Member

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    You newbie heh

    - Did you read any of my guides, if so, which?
    Fishy, HC zerker..

    - Did you follow any of my guides, if so, which and why?
    I followed your fishy guide for a while when I got back to D2 after a long break.. I didn't stay on the true path and never finished the char though.. :rolleyes:

    - What did you like about the guides and what not?
    The stuff I remember most about the guides (quite some time ago) was that it was good to read. Didn't focus on the overpowering of your characters but focus on having fun and surviving the game. I really like it that way, keep writing it like that, put in your own vision and it's good.

    - Do you like the focus on HC with poor items or would you prefer guides that focus on SC with uber-twinkage?
    Depends.. I used to be a dueler, so SC twinked that was. Nowadays I'm more of the HC untwinked plays :)

    - What future guides would you find useful? (for example: standard build, non-standard build, or maybe general guide on how to build an efficient char, or something I'm not thinking of now?)
    IMO general guides on being game efficient really are worth the effort and reading, but most people will use guides to build characters so, maybe single (standard or non standard) character guides are best.. not my pick.

    - Are the guides too long / too short / just right?
    I can't remember, however I am biased because I read fast and tend to enjoy reading everything I start.. so.. you might aswell make a 10 pages guide, I'll read it (I read trough the entire wolfbarb thread and the tal's vs uniques thread :lol: )

    - Any specific build you'd like to see? / Old guides I should expand?
    How about creating a beast runeword with me (we'll split it, I'll take three runes and you can give two.. my pick though.. ) and we'll make a bear sin guide!

    - Anything else you want to share?
    I ate at a spanish restaurant today .. smelly garlic me :)
     
  17. Artagas

    Artagas IncGamers Member

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    I have read three, here is what i think of them:
    - Tiger/DS 'sin: Honestly, after the first read the whole concept of a 2-handed weapon wielding assasin in HC looks so absurd that one is tempted to try it. Still this character is far from my play style, but yeah that is one of those guides that make me say "woah, never thought it would be possible to guardian a char like that". I don't say i will necesseraly play it, but reading it broadened my view of the assasin class. I find the merc part a little shallow though. Also i would have liked to see an example gear set up with breakpoint analysis.
    - Berserker: Ok, this one annoyed me. I am not a HC player, but one of these mornings i got the idea i would start an HC char either way, and also that i would make a really offensive one so it is more risky/exciting. After some thinking i came up with the idea of doing a berserker with a bunch of singing skills that keep him alive, and tought i was smart, and that it'd be a really unique HC char. Than i opened up the forums and instantly bumped into your guide and had to realize that it would be very hard to come up with anything unique in a game as old and popular as this one. Ah well, have to say, that the informativeness of the guide compensated me well for the furstration, and it is indeed good help in my first HC struggles. Same as above, i understand it is for untwinked gameplay, but still some exapmle set-ups would have been nice, for example the one your berserker used late game.
    - Da famous Fishymancer: This one is probably one of the 3 best guides i have ever read. Well, no it is not original. But it is comprehensive and straight to the point. I figure skillwise most of the people would come up with the same if they were to build a straight-summoner, but the guide does a very good analysis of every aspect of playing this char. My summonmancer is on late nightmare at the moment, so i am not certain yet, but it looks very much like it will work well on hell. Though I do understand why you dont like IM in 1.10, you could have pointed out the IM-Attract tecnhique which is still more or less efficent in some situations. The MF part doesn't mention Andariel, who is not the most popular MF target, but imho she is worth mentioning at least (if for nothing else her "high" chanche of dropping a SoJ on NM. high as in once in 20 blue moons)

    I like the focus on untwinked play in general, since people who has played long enough to posses uber gear, need guides less. On the other hand, it wouldnt hurt to put a sample "uber" gear in each of these guides. Of course i would be happier to see some non-standard guides in the future. I mean...do you have anything shockingly new to tell us about how to build a hammerdin?:p (well, actually, you did great with your cookie-cutter necro guide, but as i said it was more the "why and how to use that char" part that i liked and not the "how to build and gear up this char" part which is rather obvious in that case).
    Well, that is all of my rambling for now. Peace.
     
  18. WhiskeyJack

    WhiskeyJack IncGamers Member

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    My apologies, didn't mean to imply he was, just that he seems to be another of the champs of underpowered or odd builds and has some fantastic skills- thought you two might make an interesting writing team on how to create and/or play characters if he's into writing guides (or would consider doing so).

    Wj

    edit in: actually, if your play styles do differ, that might make it more interesting, as you could then provide contrasting viewpoints- not to say one is wrong or not, but to show how something can be approached/skills can be utilized in different ways. Again, I'm thinking a general guide on planning characters and how to fight with them.
     
  19. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Well, at the time I posted it, it was sorta original. ;)

    On a more general note: Well, it's not impossible to come up with something new and unique, but it takes quite a bit of effort since pretty much everything has been done before. But sometimes you can add a little twist to your char to make it unlike any other. (perfect example: my latest guardian) I think I can safely say no one has build an enchantress quite that way before.


    edit: WJ: We'll see what jia thinks once he sees the thread. I'm not quite sure collaborating on a large scale works very well for a guide like this but we'll see. So far I've had decent success with just posting a more or less rough draft and then incorporating feedback.
     
  20. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    - Did you read any of my guides, if so, which?
    I've read the fishymancer, DS/TS Assassin, and Zerker guide

    - Did you follow any of my guides, if so, which and why?
    Not yet. I seem to be stuck on Amazons at the moment. :) The Zerker is on my list of "to do" builds, and the Assassin guide is going to be the starting point for my BHS Septavirate 'Sin.

    - What did you like about the guides and what not?
    I like that they show how to build a character that can beat the game untwinked and with enough safety for HC. I know I won't be wasting my time following one of the guides even though I don't have uber equipment (or am playing untwinked.)

    - Do you like the focus on HC with poor items or would you prefer guides that focus on SC with uber-twinkage?
    Well, since I mostly play HC without a lot of twinking, that would be my preference. Also, it's easier for someone to adapt a HC untwinked guide to SC uber-twinked than the reverse. When reading a guide, the minute I start seeing a list of uber items (without poorman's options) I stop reading, as it is no use to me. There is certainly no harm in listing a dream set-up, but I like the main focus to be the HC untwinked.

    - What future guides would you find useful? (for example: standard build, non-standard build, or maybe general guide on how to build an efficient char, or something I'm not thinking of now?)
    I like non-standard builds myself. As someone else said, a lot of the standard builds have already been done. A general guide for building an efficient character sounds like an interesting idea as well.

    - Are the guides too long / too short / just right?
    Just right.

    - Any specific build you'd like to see? / Old guides I should expand?
    I would love to see a meleemancer or commandomancer guide focused on HC untwinked. (I still haven't decided on my Necro Septavirate character, but I know I don't want to do a pure summoner...)
     

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