If the Ladder Reset........

bogie

Diabloii.Net Member
If the Ladder Reset........

Hey guys, this is a little question that I've been debating with myself for quite a while. The Summoner of course, is my all time favorite character, ever since I first got the game. So, here arises the question of how to properly start a Necro WITHOUT the customary gear (ie. Hoto, Beast, Engima, Homun/Boneflame, torches, anni's etc) should the ladder ever happens to reset. After all, I havnt played a Necro untwinked since the beginning of ladder :cool: , and ive lost touch with my untwinked roots.

I just want to hear opinions on how to best approach the problem of equiping a summoner in the beginning of ladder. Questions like... should I go commando for early corspes? bone hybrid?, who is the necromancer best suited to run without tele? What diffuculty?

All suggestions and advice are welcome :smiley: .

thanks,

Bogie,
 

bobofuzzlymunky

Diabloii.Net Member
most people make sorcs/hdins at the start of ladder. but summoner seems liek a sexy idea, although it would be kinda long it would be possible. just save alot of gold up and shop some +skill wands and im pretty sure he should do ok. id say team with a pally that has salvation to give ur skellies more res. only advice- patience. i tried this b4 starting from nothing. diablo gave me the most trouble, one fire nova wrecked all of them.
 

gorf

Diabloii.Net Member
I would suggest making sure you get at least a point in all curses. Attract can be really nice when you don't have teleport. I've never gotten much out of the middle branch of the tree, but that's more as a result of not trying than any valid reason against it. Without teleport, I would probably run NM baal a bunch, as the halls are the right size for not getting caught, but not giving enough room for monsters to stand clear of a corpse explosion.

Gorf
 

kaervek

Diabloii.Net Member
Buy a +3 RS/SM wand before you do anything else. should cost ~50-150k depending on plain/magic mods. You can use this right until your 45 and can equip +3 summoning wands (you can't shop these till 55 though)

Max RS first. If you dont have amp on the wand, put a point here. once RS is maxed put a point in clay->mastery->summon resist. Then start pumping SM. Dont worry about decrep until you have maxed SM. By level ~30 your skeletons will be strong enough to take down D with amp instead of decrep with the above wand. Maybe earlier if you picked up a +1 skill amulet of some sort. just keep summoning clay golem on the opposite side of D to teh skeletons so he uses his lightning attack on the golem and not the skeletons. This will kill most of them, but they should be fine vs the fire nova.

If you want a low level shield either take sigons, or get a "preserved head" with RS on it. griswald in tristram has a 1/10 chance of dropping a necro head, so keep an eye out for them on trist runs. Rakashu (the fallen at trist entrance) also has a 1/10 chance of dropping the same item, so if you dont run to trist, take the red portal out then back in again to double check.

A +3 RS wand and shield is enough to get right through norm and NM, and both of them can be gotten before the end of A1.

In A2 NM, aside from the obligitory might merc, shop for a staff of teleportation when the exit is on east side of town. they normally have enough charges to get through a specific area, just keep it on weapon switch. A circlet or amulet with charges would be even better.

Get your merc sigons armor/helm for a cheap 10% LL from partial set bonus, and just buy a decent weapon from the npc.
 

Arkardo

Diabloii.Net Member
Max RS first.
Actually, I think you should first raise RS to level 3 or 6 to get a number of skeletons, then get SM up to around 15. Then max RS and lastly max SM; the damage increase from SM is greater than RS until RS reaches somewhere around level 15. Put a point in Ampify Damage when you see it fit.

I tried it and it works wonders. Even Duriel was a cakewalk. I only needed to resummon once against Diablo while I didn't even bother to get a Clay Golem first. Yes, that also means no point in Summon Resist. Not even Decripify.

I think I was around level 28 with 16 RS and 15 SM (got Amp from a necro head) when I beat Diablo this way. Maybe it was parly luck, but I do know that going only for RS/SM/AD initialy works greatly. No need to weaken your skellies when you don't need to. :laugh:



 

Pooshy

Diabloii.Net Member
without nigma, boss runs are hard though. So you'd be working on a lot of pit runs, ancient tunnel runs, and runs in act 5. Baal runs are okay- until you actually fight baal himself, then its just a *****.
 

Thrandir

Diabloii.Net Member
To fight Diablo as a young summoner, I just buy a +2 bspear wand and wear +mana gear. It's really easy that way. If you were doing it just to see how the skellies do early on, lol, cool.
 

AnimeCraze

Diabloii.Net Member
Actually, I think you should first raise RS to level 3 or 6 to get a number of skeletons, then get SM up to around 15. Then max RS and lastly max SM; the damage increase from SM is greater than RS until RS reaches somewhere around level 15. Put a point in Ampify Damage when you see it fit.
SM might give you more damage per skeleton, but RS gives you more damage per second (since you also get more skeletons, aside from the damage). For Baal runs, hope HF drops a Fal, I guess (he dies to obedience extremely fast).

I started off this ladder with a sorc and a necro. The necro finds all the socket and runes the sorc need to start off.



 

Arkardo

Diabloii.Net Member
Perhaps, but you need three points for one extra skelleton, while you could've risen the damage of the others by a large amount.



Let's take a Summoner with level 6/6 skelletons, shall we?

Number of skelletons: 4
Skelleton damage: 15-16
Damage/attack: 60-64

Now, if he had three skill points to use, we can either add them to RS or SM.

If he puts them in RS:

Number of skelletons: 5
Skelleton damage: 19-21
Damage/attack: 95-105

If he puts them in SM:

Number of skelletons: 4
Skelleton damage: 22-24
Damage/attack: **-96



Well, I guess I was wrong; it IS true RS raises the damage done more, so I've been wrong all along. Also, both add the same amount of attack rating and RS even adds more health . Kind of strange if you think about it; this all doesn't really make sense.

Anyway, RS does, however, increase the mana cost to summon them. So there! :tongue: :wink3:
 

bogie

Diabloii.Net Member
Now im torn.... should I start a windy or a necro for 1st char... the windy would be faster killer (maybe) but the necro would be safer/more mf... any thoughts?

Edit: Its really between druids and necros now.... the only 2 chars I really like besides zmiters, Im already creating a sorc to partner with the summoner/druid just to speed things up :tongue: .
 

tmd turka

Diabloii.Net Member
In every ladder reset my first char is a summoner 90% of the time. I am expierenced with summoners and they are easily my most played build. I can tell you they are very viable for mf/item hunting and allow you access to every mf spot in the game. There is no place a summoner can't go.

Many people will say a Meteorb sorc is the way to go for your first build but I find them to be overly fragile with untwinked gear. Yes they can teleport but if anything hits you on the way your as good as dead.

Nothing wipes a map clean of eneimes like a summoner. Seeing your minions charge in like an invading army is awe inspiring.
 

DaemonAkuma

Diabloii.Net Member
The first character I ever had, ever, on Diablo II, expansion, and online as well as single player, has been a summoner. They were the first class I play, and my favorite by far. In fact, I enjoy no other character much at all.

As for advice; I balance SM/RS for no other reason than this: I did it once, and it worked exceptionally well. Equip: Anything and everything with the best +skills to skills you need (AKA skellies). Armor is the same as always until you can get your hands on Enigma: Def and Res. Granted you still will not get hit often at all, but the only difference is if you do get tankled up you can't just press a button and have a 45+ army to protect you. Also, of course, know what build you'r emaking so you dont' have to worry about wasting Skill or stat points. That saves heartache later.

To give an accurate depiction of how well it worked you need only to know a small story. I almost always played private games and really only mingled for baaling and trading (because everyone whines and complains about summoners and, to be honest, everyone else died and i didn't). Whenever I finally started to talk to people they always talked about how hard this place was, or that place and all I could say was....huh?

I had absolutely no difficulties. Diablo? Decrepify. He drops A-ok like that, and I've never had my army wiped out by his fire nova attack (although his lightning does deserve respect). Other than that I doubt you'll have any troubles.
 

garion

Diabloii.Net Member
a pure summoner would be ok...untwinked for a whiles....a nice naj's puzzler and you can start zipping around =)
 

AnimeCraze

Diabloii.Net Member
I had absolutely no difficulties. Diablo? Decrepify. He drops A-ok like that, and I've never had my army wiped out by his fire nova attack (although his lightning does deserve respect). Other than that I doubt you'll have any troubles.
You forgot maggot + arcane. They are annoying as hell w/o tele. Of course, in exchange, you don't die to souls because of DV, and ancients is an absolute joke.



 

Zarniwoop

Diabloii.Net Member
I seriously doubt a windy can kill much faster than a well-built necro with an enigma.

People that say summoners are slow, must be playing them wrong.

No, we'll never be the fastest, but we get it done with good speed and almost invulnerability if we watch what we're doing.
 

Tempy

Diabloii.Net Member
Tele drop + CE does kill fast.
Well I'm a necro currently MF'ing with relatively crappy gear since all my old chars got deleted (stupid 90 day limit, keep forgetting lol).

Right now, I have +7 skills, and if I hadn't received some stuff from friends, I'd probably be at +5 or +6 skill. My MF would likely suffer some tho, as would my resists.

So overall, I have about 300 MF (both rings and ammy are all blue MF with no other mods worth mentioning), 850'is health, +7 skills, 500'ish mana, 70% block, and my resists are around 20-30. Pretty much low stats, and fairly close to the kind of stats you would have just starting over.

So speaking from my current MF experience.

Pit runs are easy as hell, summons are easy enough to control even without nigma.

River of flame completely depends on the makeup of the map (going from the city of the damned wp), if it's the one with all those bridges then skeletons can be really hard to control, and you should be prepared to town portal every now and then just to regroup them. The part past the riven of flame waypoint can also be very annoying when half your army teleports to a different ledge than the one you're on.

Chaos sanctuary is just plain annoying without teleport. Your merc will get himself killed to iron maiden quite a bit, and you're gonna be resummoning a lot more than normal.

pindle/shenk is a joke, I always start with pindle for my army.

WSK is either extremely easy (no gloams) or fairly hard (gloams. Abuse dim vision a lot, but without high resists the stray shots that hit you are really gonna hurt). I can still do WSK well enough, but I have to rejuv every now and then if there's gloams, and I use gumby a lot to summon ahead of me to scout for gloams, because getting hit by like 4 of them from off screen would probably 1-shot me.

Baal's pack's are easy, although lister can be annoying. I've had some lister fights where my summons were all over the place, without tele it's hard to get them to focus fire. If he spawns with hard mods I also have to decrep, which means the fight takes a while. Baal on the other hand is a complete joke, just takes forever. Going to river of glame to grab some urdars is definitely recommended.

Overall, my necro moves pretty slow, but he can do everything. I haven't gotten to any area yet I can't do (except for arcane sanctuary/maggot lair, I simply refuse to do those because they are too frustrating).



 

KavikKang

Diabloii.Net Member
Hey guys, this is a little question that I've been debating with myself for quite a while. The Summoner of course, is my all time favorite character, ever since I first got the game. So, here arises the question of how to properly start a Necro WITHOUT the customary gear (ie. Hoto, Beast, Engima, Homun/Boneflame, torches, anni's etc) should the ladder ever happens to reset. After all, I havnt played a Necro untwinked since the beginning of ladder :cool: , and ive lost touch with my untwinked roots.

I just want to hear opinions on how to best approach the problem of equiping a summoner in the beginning of ladder. Questions like... should I go commando for early corspes? bone hybrid?, who is the necromancer best suited to run without tele? What diffuculty?

All suggestions and advice are welcome :smiley: .

thanks,

Bogie,
My MF Summoner is my primary character and is always the first one I make when a new ladder starts. Very shortly after the Nec is going, I make a MF Light Sorc for "quick stuff". The Summoner does longer term solo Baal/Diablo/Nithlak/Pit MF runs in games with 5+ players and the sorc does the "quick MF runs" that most people do exclusively. I actually use the Nec a lot more than the Sorc and believe that I build wealth much faster in the nec runs than I do in the Sorc runs (but I still make the Sorc, mostly because she can get keys literally like 3 or 4 times faster than the Nec can).

The great thing about the Nec, and the whole reason I start with the Nec, is that he doesn't need any gear at all. A summon nec can easily beat the game naked. This allows you to initially just stick topazes into anything socketed you can find and have high MF with complete garbage gear. So my initial "reset character" starts out just wearing anything with MF he can get his hands on. As I find things and build weatlh, I gradually but the "real" gear for him.

Really, summoners are the best character to start with after a reset because they don't require any gear at all, can easily have high MF just by wearing anything with sockets and topazs and cheap items like Goldwrap and Nagel Rings, and can very quickly (as soon as you can get to level 85 or so) begin doing solo MF runs the highest item level areas with 4+ players in the game.



 

DaemonAkuma

Diabloii.Net Member
You forgot maggot + arcane. They are annoying as hell w/o tele. Of course, in exchange, you don't die to souls because of DV, and ancients is an absolute joke.
Ah, you are completely right. Very true. They were very annoying...but not a hazard or "difficult" in terms of my ability to destroy them or in my survivability. It was just an insane degree of inconvenience. Now as for trying to navigate through the troublesome Lair, it took me near an hour to clear it (not to mention a few years off my projected life span from frustration). But yes, those two places are the absolute incarnation of the worst topography for a non-tele necromancer summoner. Yuck. Just got to have patience with that one, and praise God when Act II is over.



 

Zarniwoop

Diabloii.Net Member
If you dont have an enigma, you have to plow until you can get one. THEN the summoner becomes almost a brand new character. You drop all those skellies anywhere and stuff just dies. Like right now.

Hell Meph evaporates. 10 seconds or less.
 
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