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If he was armed would they still be alive?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Dirty_Zulu, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. Dirty_Zulu

    Dirty_Zulu IncGamers Member

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    If he was armed would they still be alive?

    This is a slightly older story. I was just reminded of this story because my sister in-law called and want to know if she should get a gun for protection since she moved to a new place.

    There're a few things that went wrong in the above story:

    - According to an interview, the father asked the grandfather, a retired cop, for a weapon but the grandfather told him to rely on the sherif department. Apparently he thinks civilians shouldn't own guns or rely on themselves for protection.

    - The couple apparently feared the suspect and tried to get a court-ordered injunction to keep him away from their family. However, a judge denied the request and now he's going to have to live with his mistakes.

    Poor girl had to witness the bloodied bodies of her parents.

    That's why I believe everyone should be armed to the teeth. At least I'd die fighting.

    Suppose the guy broke the door and woke the parents and if the father had a gun would they still be alive?
     
  2. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    And suppose he's a heavy sleeper and she sleeps with earplugs because of his snoring. They'd be just as dead.

    What makes people think that they're going to be able to wake up, become aware enough, locate their weapon, load it, and have it ready all before something like this could happen? If you can do all of that in a few seconds silently enough, the gun's probably too easy for the 5 year old to get a hold of and set off to begin with.
     
  3. Steel_Avatar

    Steel_Avatar IncGamers Member

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    Only James Bond sleeps with a gun under his pillow.

    I'm not saying I disagree with the right to bear arms, Zulu. I just think that this is a piss-poor example to use to try and illustrate the need for guns.
     
  4. axeil

    axeil IncGamers Member

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    This example is like someone citing hunting accidents as a reason to ban all guns.
     
  5. theBlackKnight

    theBlackKnight IncGamers Member

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    I think its obvious, guns dont kill people, drugs do.
     
  6. Vae Victus

    Vae Victus IncGamers Member

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    I'm a fence sitter. At one end, in a paranoid propaganda-filled country like America, it seems like accidental deaths and violent crimes dwarf the amount of people who are legitimately better off because of guns. On the other end, banning guns really doesn't solve any problems that cause violence, just an easy means to execute violence.

    Of course, I never really defined "crime" the same way rich governments do. When some billionaire is sitting in a hot tub eating thousand-dollar plates while thousands of people starve every day, that's crime to me. Killing people like that, I really don't have a problem with, hah.

    I suppose it comes down to a case-by-case basis. I don't know. I try not to really think about stuff like this anymore, because it'll never really make much of a difference most of the time. I'm not a leader, and even if I could, I wouldn't trick the herd into thinking the same way I do (ahem, Rush Limbaugh). I just don't have the time to think of how it should be in a perfect world, and how it should be right now to edge towards that perfect world, etc. Maybe I'm just tired. :p
     
  7. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    How is this already a referedum on guns in general? Zulu's question was whether or not this family would have managed to survive if they'd had guns. It's not like these people were denied a gun by the law. He asked for a gun from someone else, and I'm assuming that since he was not a gun owner himself, he wasn't licensed to own one.

    Handguns aren't toys that should be or can be lent to your neighbors and friends. They're dangerous weapons, and there's a good reason why you can't walk down to Wal Mart and come home with a 9mm. If this guy had wanted a gun, he could have had one, it just would have taken a while for him to go through the application process.
     
  8. Vae Victus

    Vae Victus IncGamers Member

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    Oh, I'm terribly sorry to have wasted your time forcing you to read my post... just kidding.

    Okay, then to answer the question, no, they wouldn't.
     
  9. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    :teeth:

    :p
     
  10. Stoutwood

    Stoutwood IncGamers Member

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    If anything, these forums have made me much more against gun control than I originally was. I used to think that there should be some "reasonable" gun control, and every time this topic comes up, which it does frequently, I pray for one of the proponents of gun control to make a good point and one that I can actually understand and respect. I like to at least see where the other side is coming from. But after that .50 Caliber topic, I saw no reason to have ANY gun control.

    I just have one thing that could be used as a good compromise - make everyone take Hunter's Safety. I see no reason why a person who owns a weapon should be against learning how to store and operate it safely. On the plus side, the two day to week-long period that the class takes would be enough of a "cooldown" period for someone considering a crime of passion, which is what most gun control advocates seem to be afraid of.
     
  11. Raistlin Majere

    Raistlin Majere IncGamers Member

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    True, but you can get a shotgun.
     
  12. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    On one hand yes.

    But on the other hand, you can argue that stricter gun control could have prevented the shooter from getting the murder weapon.

    And at the very least, one can argue that this was a special situation where the victim has demonstrated need for a gun. His life was at risk. He even spent money on a lawyer to seek a restraining order.

    But... why didn't he just go buy a shotgun? It's not that difficult to lawfully buy one.
     
  13. Ranger14

    Ranger14 IncGamers Member

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    I agree with Drunk again! :D I am pretty much in line with what he and Steel said.

    People press the issue of having a gun for self defense. Many times all that does is give you a false sense of security. I use to teach women's self-defense and one of the things we would stress is that no matter how secure you feel, anyone can freeze in confrontational situation. Also taking a short self-defense program isn't going to teach you the instincts and intuition it takes to handle yourself in that kind of situation. You need to practice and train until it becomes second nature to you.

    Going out a purchasing a gun is going to work the same way. Especially if you are surprised and don't have the gun on your person, you are S.O.L. anyway.

    A loaded gun and a little girl or kid in the house = not a good situation
    An unloaded gun and an aggressor in the house = not a good situation

    A gun in the house really isn't going to help that much.
     
  14. Stoutwood

    Stoutwood IncGamers Member

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    Good question, especially when a shotgun is the most effective self-defense weapon that you can buy.

    EDIT: And I've also never understood why people keep their guns loaded, considering it takes less then 2 seconds to slam a clip in, or a little more if you are putting shells into the magazine of a shotgun.
     
  15. theBlackKnight

    theBlackKnight IncGamers Member

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    If you leave the breech open, you can just slap in a shell, and, in some states, the pumping of the shotgun can be legally considered a warning shot, so if they dont haul butt outta their, they are legally shootable.

    Check your state laws before shooting people though.
     
  16. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    Riiiight.

    I don't know about you folks, but if I fart too loud in the middle of the night and wake up, I don't know what planet I'm on let alone where my gun is and that it needs to be loaded and ready in .2 seconds to kill the guy coming to get me. Someone breaks in to kill me, gun or no, I'm toast.

    Now do you honestly expect a guy who's never handled any gun in his life, ever, to suddenly buy a freaking shotgun, have it close by enough to his bed to even stand a chance at getting to it, and not to be shaking so goddamned hard he can't get the shells into the breach? Puhhhleeeze. You're dreaming.

    Hell, he'd probably have gotten the kid killed too.

    A gun does not automatically=instant safety, sorry folks. A gun in the hands of someone trained to use one, perhaps. I still say someone sound asleep who was caught in their bed as it was wouldn't stand a chance anyway. If they were on the floor by their bed, they might have gotten 2 feet. So he sat up in bed when the bedroom door opened was dead before his feet hit the floor. Same with the wife. Someone please tell me where a gun in the room would have done anything besides make him sleep harder?
     
  17. Steel_Avatar

    Steel_Avatar IncGamers Member

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    God damn. Half the OTF must be the lightest ****ing sleepers on the planet.
     
  18. Necrolestes

    Necrolestes IncGamers Member

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    Guns don't kill people...I do

    I'd sleep through my own murder, given my depth of sleep.

    I think Ranger14 and DC makes good points: you can't keep a loaded gun in the house with a 5 year old unless it's locked in a gun safe (where it does no one any good because safes take time to open and by the time you have the gun in hand, you're as good as dead). Unless they knew beforehand that the guy was going to make an attempt that night on their lives, having a gun of their own would not have made any real difference. With the exception of military personnel and experienced shooters, it takes a small amount of time to load and ready a gun (the experts can do it in their sleep but the amateurs...) so keeping an unloaded gun out in the open with ammo nearby is just pointless (safer for the kid, because there's a much smaller chance of her shooting herself if the gun's unloaded and she doesn't know how to load it; useless in a combat situation).
     
  19. UserMathias

    UserMathias IncGamers Member

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    I support alarm systems. :uhhuh:
     
  20. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    Go with alarm systems. Having a gun means they would have been just as likely to shoot a friendly.

    Never trust your average civilians with firearms.
     

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