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Ideal Character Level to Gamble SOJ

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by Gyro, Mar 24, 2004.

  1. Gyro

    Gyro IncGamers Member

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    Ideal Character Level to Gamble SOJ

    I imagine there should be an ideal character level range for the best (albeit incredibly low) odds of gambling an SOJ. This would be the range at which it's possible to gamble only nagel, manald heal, and SOJ but none of the higher level unique rings.

    My questions if anyone cares to tackle them are:
    1. What is this ideal character level range?
    2. What are the actual odds to gamble an soj by a character whose level is in this range?
    3. How do the odds for gambling an soj go up if a nagel and/or manald heal have already dropped in the game?

    Three cheers and a free abacus for whoever wants to do the math on this one (or just point me to the link where someone has likely done this already). :drink:
     
  2. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    Very interesting questions!
    But I think chances to find a soj in gambling in as little as nothing.

    1. Character lvl33-lvl46 is the best for it in 1.10.
    2. Chance to find a soj by gambling with this character is about 1:155000 for a ring. So good luck! :)
    3. If you are already found Nagel or Manald in this game, then chances are 1:80000.

    I use 1:5000 base chance to find unique by gambling. If it is incorrect you must change this numbers.

    P.S.: Check my SOJ FAQ. Saidinhc and I almost finished it!
    http://www.datascanch.ru/soj.txt
     
  3. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    1. clvl 44-48 would be best. Below 44 you have a chance that the gambled ring will be too low level to be an SoJ. Above 48 you have a chance that the gambled ring would be high enough level to be a Dwarf Star or a Raven Frost.

    2. 1:155,000 is correct.

    3. Nagel or Manald dropping makes no difference at all to your chances of an SoJ. The game still considers them even if they have dropped. It just won't drop them again. Instead of 15/31 chance of a Nagel, 15/31 chance of a Manald, and 1/31 chance of an SoJ, you will have 30/31 chance of a rare (failed unique) ring and 1/31 chance of an SoJ.
     
  4. Gyro

    Gyro IncGamers Member

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    Three cheers! :yep: :yep: :yep:
    Now I need to figure out how to send you that abacus.

    That's bad news about the way unique ring drop odds are determined. Prevailing opinion on several threads seems to be that the odds of finding an soj actually increase once a non-soj unique ring drops. Leaving the check for previous drops until the final step seems like a more likely algorithm and is consistent with the way the game handles non-ring unique subsitutions.

    Too bad. I was kind of looking forward to hunting for games in which the other two rings had dropped.

    At least now I know how much an soj is worth in gambling gold--15.5 billion anyone?
     
  5. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    The reason of it is because Thrugg haves no time to correct those threads!

    However, during my soj hunting I face with two interesting events. Both times it was double drops of unique rings by Andy. First time it was Manald+Nagel, but second, …, O! IT WAS NAGEL+SOJ!!!

    Does anyone can explain it? I was too lucky? Or it was “the same unique in the same game” effect?

    EDIT:

    I have just reread “Item Generation Tutorial” and have found an interesting thing:
    Does anyone can comment it?
    Does a Nagel or Manald ring drop can increase the soj drop chance?

    And the main question is: How does someone can test this theory? :scratch:
     
  6. moi

    moi IncGamers Member

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    Whatever that is you're quoting is incorrect. The chance of finding any particular unique ring in the game does not change after others have been found. As has been mentioned already, if the game tries to drop two nagels in the same game, it will make the second one rare instead.
     
  7. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    These things are tested by modders fairly simply. If you know what you are doing you can make a Quill Rat drop unique rings every time, and make it the appropriate level to drop only the rings you want. If finding a Nagel or Manald helped the chance of a SoJ, the first three Quill Rats would probably drop Manald-Nagel-SoJ or Nagel-Manald-SoJ. But in fact it is typically Manald-Nagel-rare because it tries to drop another Manald or Nagel the third time.

    Of course mods are only single player and it is an item of faith that it works the same way on the realms, but there is no reason to believe that they would make something so trivial different.

    The main reason there is this widespread belief that it does help is because in D2 Classic up to 1.06, the game handled multiple uniques of the same type differently, and in fact an SoJ couldn't fall until after Manald and Nagel dropped. But that has not been the case since the expansion came out.
     
  8. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    O! It is Interesting! I forget that mod making can simplify a lot of tests!
    I will check Lurker Lounge, Phrozen Keep, Amazon Basin or something about mod making question!

    Only reason for this message is my wish to ask someone to suggest good “Beginer’s Guide to Mod Making”. My job is programming, so I don’t think mod making is difficult thing. Can anyone help?
     
  9. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Not here I'm afraid. Discussion of mods is generally outside diabloii.net's charter, as are links to such sites. However a search engine is your friend. And you sound like you know where to start looking.
     
  10. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    Never mind!

    The modding is a very easy thing. You don’t need to be a programmer to do it!

    After about five minutes of work I altered the game. Quill Rats at Normal Act 1 started to drop only unique rings and becomes lvl39. I got interesting results: Manald, Rare, Rare, Nagel, Rare, Rare, …, Rare, SOJ! So …

    The same unique cannot drop in the same game twice! However, it’s drop doesn’t increase chances of other uniques! If the game decides to drop that unique again, it will drop 3x durability rare instead!

    P.S.: According to rules I don’t write about cheating! I write about discovering game features! ;)
     
  11. qhc

    qhc IncGamers Member

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    My sorc just went into a 4ppl nm game and killed Andy.
    She dropped 4 magics and potion/bolts
    Doh, not a quest andy.
    I still not sure about how to get quest andy? definitely I should have talked with npc Warriv after andy quest, so all andy will be quest andy according to the guide?
     
  12. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    May be you use old (1.09) character? Or bolts was dropped by other monster? You need more tests.
    Anyway, do you exit the game immidately after killng Andy when you complete the quest?
     
  13. Wolv

    Wolv IncGamers Member

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    I thought 2x of the same unique CAN drop in the same game, but only if its dropped by the same monster....
     
  14. (Ø=M)^42

    (Ø=M)^42 IncGamers Member

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    Two of the same unique CAN be dropped in one game, if they are dropped in the same drop. Usually by Act Bosses (since they drop many items.)
     
  15. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    Well, I did some more tests. Quill Rat started to drop 6 unique rings per kill and become lvl39. However double unique drop from the same rat was not occurred! So …

    Two of the same unique cannot be dropped in one game, EVEN if they are dropped in the same drop.

    Thought if anyone has different game experience I would like to listen how one uniques was dropped twice in the same drop.
    Does anyone see double unique drop?
     
  16. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    It's been reported, and even by people whose reports I would trust (though I have not seen it myself).

    It is an interesting issue - probably difficult to be sure just by modding. Some background... D2 has two components, a server and a client (even in single player). In online games you use the local client but the Bnet server code, in SP you use both local versions. Most game info is maintained in the server part, it only tells the client what it needs to know. When a unique item drops, it has to check with the server to see if it is allowed to, depending on if it has dropped before.

    It is possible that in a large drop, communication speed between the two components could affect whether one unique dropping updates the (server) list of dropped uniques, before the next one checks it to see if it can drop. You may only see it playing online, or maybe SP on a very slow machine.

    This is all speculation, of course.
     

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