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IDEA: Raiment of a Thousand Storms revision for Patch 2.2

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by gerhard, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    I've given up on this thread (and posting in game-related forums in general) for the foreseeable future. Details in last post herein.

    After seeing what the new version of this set would/could look like in patch 2.2, I wondered how it could be made better, at least visually.

    You see, the problem with the version of the set currently live on 2.1.2 is (obviously) that it doesn't do nearly enough damage and that it’s a bit counter-intuitive in regards to how you use dashing strike to trigger the effect.

    In the description of dashing strike it says that you deal damage to enemies you dash through, but contrary to that the set bonus makes it so that you are forced to not actually dash through, but to a certain point and hope that the (not specified) radius of the damage effect hits everything you wanted it to hit.

    So, I’d much rather see the set buffing the damage of dashing strike directly (so that it does not do about 300 %, but like 4 or 5 thousand % weapon damage to enemies you dash through). Or, better yet, I’d like to see it made visually more interesting! As I've envisioned it, it would look something like this:


    (2) Your Spirit Generators now do 70% more weapon damage and gain 5% attack speed for every charge of dashing strike you have stored up.

    (4) Your Generators have a 33% chance to grant a charge of Dashing Strike. The amount of charges you can store with Dashing Strike is increased by 5.

    (6) Dashing Strike assaults(A) all enemies you dash through for 20% weapon damage(B) over 1 second(C) for every point of spirit you have stored up. Dashing strike now costs 75 spirit.


    Notes:

    (A) The phrasing “Assaults” in this context means that it will display the same effect as from dashing strike (barrage) and/or epiphany (inner fire). That code is already in the game, so minimal additional workload for the artists/devs.

    (B) The phrasing “over 1 second” would result in 3 to 4 visual hits (lil’ monks) - effectively a shorter animation than with dashing strike (barrage), so less game performance concerns.

    (C) The damage type is determined by your highest elemental bonus. This is something that all other sets aim to do now.


    Clarification:

    On the 2 set bonus: If you want to make generators viable, 100% is not nearly enough, period. Even with depth diggers and simplicity’s strength, it wouldn't cut it. And as the often mentioned fantasy of being a monk is “to be a blur of fists”, attack speed for the generators only would make a world of difference in making this fantasy clearer. Making the damage bonus scale with dashing strike charges makes for an interesting resource management dynamic.

    On the 4 set bonus: I like the developer’s original for this, but I’d like to add just a bit more randomness to it, so a proc chance would in my opinion be better here to generate charges.

    On the 6 set bonus: I know many of you would think 5000% damage bonus (at 250 spirit) is too much, but hear me out… If you compare this to what a fire bell monk does nowadays with the 2.1.2 Sunwuko set, you basically get this: 830% * 500% of the set bonus = roughly 4100% weapon damage per bell to every monster on the screen (with dashing strike, on the other hand, you actually need to aim). The here proposed assaulting variant of dashing strike actually would take crit chance and damage into account for every single of the individual hits (it already does so with dashing strike - barrage), so you’d basically get a more even damage output (a bit less “crit or miss”) with this dashing delight. Also, to compensate for this immense damage boost, dashing strike should once again cost spirit

    I think the managing of essentially two resources (spirit as well as dashing strike charges) creates far more interesting and (dare I say) strategic gameplay. The numbers can be tweaked, of course.

    And just to mention - I've intentionally left some more charges of dashing strike then how much one can use in quick succession at default 250 max spirit because of the exalted soul passive, as well as added spirit from items and paragon levels.

    And a special bonus for those who complained of motion sickness while playing the always-dashing-around variant of the set with Jawbreaker: Because of the fact that dashing strike would cost spirit and you would want to wait to have as much spirit as possible before you dash next time, you simply will not be inclined or forced to dash constantly!

    This was partially inspired by the new in-the-works DH multishot set briefly shown at Blizzcon.

    So that’s it. I hope you enjoyed reading this wall of text. I’d love to hear your opinions and suggestions!


    Edit: I've integrated the suggestion by official EU forum member Star into this initial post and made some further revisions/tweaks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  2. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    I've posted this also on the official EU forums under the monk section to get more exposure.
     
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  3. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    After seeing the 2.2. preview, I'm even more eager for others to read the idea above, so I'd also like to elaborate on the gameplay / gearing effects this variant of the set would bring:

    1) In my opinion, this variant of the RoaTS set does a great deal of justice to monk players by giving them the chance to play the long sought after fantasy of a "blur of fists" and "I break your bones with my fists" monk. It also fits perfectly with the name of the set because of the endless little attacks your dashing strike does.

    2) For those who complained of motion sickness while playing the always-dashing-around variant of the set with Jawbreaker: Because of the fact that dashing strike would cost spirit and you would want to wait to have as much spirit accumulated as possible before you dash next time, you simply would not be inclined or forced to dash constantly!

    6) This set would make single-target damage very good, or AOE very good, but not at the same time. You decide - do you want to store more charges of dashing strike and punch a boss to death, or do you want to dash around and punch a mass of monsters with your lil' monks to death.

    4) Bonus max spirit on items and via paragon levels would be very sought after when using this variant of the set, witch is not the case at all at the moment.

    5) Cooldown reduction would not be as necessary (or even at all necessary).
     
  4. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    So here's the info about the official revision of this set, courtesy of diablofans.com datamining:

    Raiment of a Thousand Storms set:

    2: [Your Spirit Generators have 25% increased attack speed and 500% increased damage.]
    4: [Increases the weapon damage of Dashing Strike to 5000%.]
    6: [Dashing Strike spends 50 Spirit, but refunds a Charge when it does.]

    Interesting to see that the whole thing is rather similar to what I wrote, but I still think it makes for far more dynamic and more engaging gameplay if everything is more micro-managable by the player.

    So I'll repost the how I'd like i to be:

    (2) Your Spirit Generators now do 70% more weapon damage and gain 5% attack speed for every charge of dashing strike you have stored up.

    (4) Your Generators have a 33% chance to grant a charge of Dashing Strike. The amount of charges you can store with Dashing Strike is increased by 5.

    (6) Dashing Strike assaults all enemies you dash through for 20% weapon damage over 1 second for every point of spirit you have stored up. Dashing strike now costs 75 spirit.

    I want to have the freedom to situationally focus on single target damage OR aoe damage. What I wrote above enables just that.

    In my opinion, plainly giving 500% and 5000% weapon damage boosts is boring and gives the vibe of "been there, done that". Why not make it more engaging like the new DH set where damage scales based on how much discipline you have stored up?

    Please, give it a thought.
     
  5. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    After much thought and weighing of the options, I've come up with the following revision:

    2 PIECES:
    - Your spirit generators do 125% more damage and have their attack speed increased by 7% for every charge of dashing strike you have stored up.
    - (All percentages here are multiplicative)

    4 PIECES:
    - Dashing strike’s hit box is increased to a width of 10 yards.
    - Charges of dashing strike are no longer automatically generated every 8 seconds…
    … but every third hit by your generators generates a charge of dashing strike.
    - You can now store a maximum of 4 dashing strike charges.

    6 PIECES:
    - Dashing strike now costs 125 spirit, but assaults all enemies it hits for 30% weapon damage per every point of spirit you have stored up.
    - (Dashing strike’s damage is based on the biggest elemental % bonus you have.)
    - If Dashing strike does not hit an enemy, no spirit is spent.
    - If you have less than 125 spirit stored up when you dash, enemies are not assaulted, spirit is not spent, but only a charge consumed.


    The phrasing “assaults” would mean that not dashing strike directly, but an effect similar to the dashing strike rune effect “barrage” would be applied to every monster you dash through - every monster would be hit by like 6 or 7 attacks by little monks (ala Seven Sided Strike / DS – barrage / Epiphany – inner fire). For every individual strike by the little monks, critical chance and damage would be calculated, so no more a big “crit or miss”.


    Resulting PLAYSTYLE:

    You punch stuff till you have 4 charges of dashing strike and full spirit built up. After every third punch your hits are faster and do more damage.

    Then, if not in a single target situation, dash once to nuke many monsters (30% x 250 sprit = 7500% weapon damage). The second dash does about half as much damage as the previous (based on your remaining spirit).

    When you are out of spirit (or have less than 125), you still have 2 charges of DS left and can dash away, but you won’t assault enemies, nor consume spirit. This enables the last 2 charges of DS you have stored up to be used as the standard, classic defensive DS.

    (And because the assaulting elemental damage type of DS is detached from rune effects, select freely what defensive / utility rune you’d like to use.)

    With this concept you are restricted in terms of how much you can dash to deal damage (no nausea any more), you do tremendous AOE damage with just 1-2 dashes, after that you can still use 2 dashes in a defensive way, and do great single target damage with your generators.


    REMARKS:

    - The rune DS Quicksilver would need to be redesigned for this to work correctly (just replace 3 charges with some other defensive effect.)
    - The legendary fist “Jawbreaker” would need to be redesigned as well.


    POSITIVE EFFECTS:

    - You are not inclined to dash constantly, significantly reducing nausea
    - The damage DS does will be normalized because of a number of smaller hits being dealt and crits being calculated for each and every one of them, not just one big hit
    - DS is visually more appealing and gives better indication of damage being done
    - DS looks like it triggers Seven Sided Strike, but without losing control of your character
    - It fits the 1000 storms name quite well
    - It does damage in a wider hit box, making aiming easier and AOE more pronounced
    - It does not force you to spend all charges of DS offensively
    - You want to wait till you are at full spirit before dashing to do damage
    - It always leaves 1 or 2 charges of DS that will automatically be used only defensively
    - It gives you freedom to choose what defensive/utility rune of DS you want to use
    - Your generators fuel your DS damage directly
    - You use generators for single target and DS for AOE, but you don’t always have the maximum damage potential for both
    - You need to strategize when to dash to do damage, and when not to.
    - Items with +max spirit will have quite a bit more significance in the item play


    NEGATIVE EFFECTS:

    - You can’t spam your AOE damage dealer, what may upset people used to Raekor’s play style
    - DS won’t do big crits anymore, but a number of smaller ones. People like big numbers more.
    - You need to strategize your resource spending. People like 1-button wonders more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
  6. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    From diablofans.com datamining:

    2 peices: Stayed the same
    4 pieces: Dashing Strike spends 50 Spirit, but refunds a Charge when it does
    6 pieces: Spirit Generators increase the weapon damage of Dashing Strike to 8750% for 3 seconds.


    The only thing I can say is "Son, I am disappoint".

    So because people complained that there is no connection in gameplay terms between the generator and dashing strike functionality of the set, now it's punch and then hurry - hurry to spend all spirit in 3 seconds with maniacal dashing around? Man, the irony.
     
  7. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    From the updated (20th March) PTR notes:

    (2) Set Bonus: Your Spirit Generators have 25% increased attack speed and 300% increased damage
    (4) Set Bonus: Dashing Strike now spends 75 Spirit, but refunds a Charge when it does
    (6) Set Bonus: Your Spirit Generators increase the weapon damage of Dashing Strike to 12500% for 6 seconds


    So what has changed? - A few numbers. And that's it. We have the same old dash-every-second nausea-inducing play style and no visual feedback regarding what monsters were actually hit by the dash.

    And just to make this clear - I'm not pissed because they didn't take my proposal into account, I'm pissed because they haven't taken any feedback into consideration and the game's players are suffering for it:

    As there is a multitude of posts regarding this particular set littered with good, solid and argumented proposals to make the set more fun to play, the only explanation as to why every single ounce of feedback is being ignored by the devs is that someone there is quite stubborn.

    Everything I wrote here, I posted in a thread at the US PTR forum since day I got the idea. If anyone wants to help make things right, please contribute a post, if not here, then on this thread:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16492089128

    Or this gigantic one:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16411692171
     
  8. LukDeRiff

    LukDeRiff IncGamers Member

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    I haven't posted in here or in any of the official threads because I had not tested the set enough to have sound impression of the playstyle.

    After some testing before the 20th and some testing after I have to say that I firmly disagree with most points that people make. The most valid argument I have seen in there is no visual feedback for Dashing Strike. While the argument has some merrit I found that it becomes pretty apparent after you played with the set a bit.

    Once I understood that the set is about Attack Speed and generating spirit primarily through generators, I adjusted my skills and items. Lo and behold it was fun to play. The punch, punch, punch, zip, zip, zip playstyle was actually pretty cool in my opinion. You had to develop a feeling for how many dashes you had before you ran out of resource and started using the charges, because that could leave you in the middle of a horde of enemies with no way to escape. The Dashing Strike animation scaled with Attack Speed so if you had some Attack Speed it became less clunky to use. The major problem occured when you were fighting Rift Guardians since it would still be hard to tell if you were hitting or not.

    Funnily enough NO ONE in the threads you linked adressed the biggest change that came with the update:

    Dashing Strike
    • Dashing Strike will now complete its animation more quickly


    "More quickly" is a bit of an understatement, the animation is almost instant much like Teleport of the Wizard. Now dashing feels so much better it is not even comparable. I was in your camp when I saw the revision of the 1000 Storm Set for the first time, but after playing it, I have to say that I like it a whole lot.
     
  9. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    @LukDeRiff

    Thank you for your reply.

    Yeah, I haven't mentioned the betterment of the DS animation. It is a step in the right direction, but...

    It only makes the constant dashing around even faster and more sickening to the stomach. I can't stress enough how much DS needs to be a nuke and not remotely spammable. Espetially at it's 12500% weap. dmg.

    My point is, non of the changes the devs have done so far have made any significant change as to how the gameplay the set is creating feels and plays.

    I'm not a pessimist, but I am losing hope of ever seeing a (gameplay-wise) good and engaging 1000 storms set.
     
  10. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    Also @LukDeRiff

    Forgot about the visual feedback thing:
    I still think that there needs to be some feedback pertaining to damage being done. As you wrote, noone in the forums mentioned how well the new DS animation has been improved, well, noone seem to have given any thought of how much cooler DS can be made with just a few visual tweaks that are already in the game code.

    I proposed making DS barrage every monster you dash through.
    Another person on the official forums proposed making DS create "after-images" or "clones" that follow your dash.
    And so on...

    Both would make DS way cooler.

    Try the barrage rune for DS and just imagine the possibilities...
     
  11. gerhard

    gerhard IncGamers Member

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    The contents of this thread have been my first (and thus only) attempt on making a contribution and trying to make the game more fun and enjoyable.

    Looking back, I still think that I never had a better / more constructive idea then this one regarding the game thus far and that is the sole reason I posted it and tried to make it more visible.

    (I tried to post it in 3 different forums, highlighting it on reddit, reaching out to streamers / website admins and such, all in hopes of making the odds of the devs reading it a bit better.)

    But it turns out game-related forums (and perhaps internet forums in general?) are a toxic environment where you get trolled, flamed and/or ignored most (or all?) of the time.

    A mostly identical thread to this one was posted on the official EU monk forums on the 17th of February 2015 (before the PTR even began), and on the official US PTR feedback forum on the 28th of February 2015.

    To this date I haven’t received one ounce of feedback regarding the actual thing I wrote.

    The PTR is nearly over and there is no indication anybody form Blizzard read what I wrote either.

    I can only assume that every single person who saw the post(s) just read the first sentence and then replayed only with a “I don’t like it” (note here that there was never an indication such person was even referring to my variant of the set, but most likely to the official one), “I wish it were like (insert wish here)” or “don’t be stupid – nobody wants dashing strike in the raiment set”.

    And just to clarify – why am I sure my idea is any good? – Because I have five close real-life friends who play Diablo 3 eagerly and all of them liked the idea very much, unlike the whole internet it seems…

    So, having felt on my own skin and learnt what it’s like to participate in such forum discussions, I’m taking a leave of absence from writing such suggestions in the foreseeable future.

    I’ll just reiterate what I wrote multiple times before – I had a good idea and I posted it in hopes of making the game a bit better.

    Farewell.
     

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