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Idea for Hybrid Kick/Trap

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by F1R3STR1D3R, Mar 29, 2004.

  1. F1R3STR1D3R

    F1R3STR1D3R IncGamers Member

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    Idea for Hybrid Kick/Trap

    Gear:

    Weapons- 2x Bartucs with 15 resists jewels
    Armor- UM Arkaines Valor
    Helm- UM Shako
    Rings- 2x Bul Kathos Bands
    Amulet- Maras
    Boots- Shadow Dancers
    Gloves- Crafted Hit Power MA????
    Belt- Arachnids Mesh

    Charms:

    10x Trap Charms
    Annihilus
    9x 36ar/20life????

    Skills: (Level 99)

    20 FireBlast
    20 LightningSentry
    20 DeathSentry
    20 ChargedBoltSentry
    20 ShockWeb
    1 DragonTalon
    1 PsychicHammer
    1 CloakOfShadows
    1 MindBlast
    1 ClawMastery
    1 WeaponBlock
    1 ShadowWarrior
    1 ShadowMaster
    1 BurstOfSpeed
    1 Fade

    Stats:

    125 Strength ??
    No Dexterity
    All Rest Vitality
    No Energy

    Skills after Equip:

    Level 19 DragonTalon 131% Kick Damage, 470% Attack Rating
    Level 17 WeaponBlock 56% Block
    Level 17 Fade 62% All Resists
    Level 44 LightningSentry 8-10414 Damage
    Level 44 FireBlast 5604-6539 Damage
     
  2. Naliworld

    Naliworld IncGamers Member

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    IMO, your STR is way too low for going with pure DTalon(without the help of CB or +Amp Damage mods) - I'd go for at least 200, maybe 250-300. Also, you shouldn't need the max FB, as you should be DTalon'ing after laying Traps. You could put those points into maxing DTalon instead, and get a 7-kick DTalon.
     
  3. F1R3STR1D3R

    F1R3STR1D3R IncGamers Member

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    Well I was planning on pure trapper, but its just 1 point into dragon talon for ~800 damage each kick I think its worth it don't you? Unless my attack rating is going to be way down...

    This is going to be mostly for PvP

    Also, does 20% Bonus AR and 25-50 damage from each claw get added to the kick?
     
  4. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    Well I don't know a lot about PvP, but I can still see very good reasons to go with max FB, even if you never cast it, its a synergy for CBS. CBS can be a great weapon versus bosses.

    CB isn't as good in PvP, but for PvM I would suggest people find some Crushing Blow.
    I'd really look into getting upgraded goreriders or even upgraded goblin toes for the CB. I'd also switch out the HitPower gloves for +MA BLOOD crafted gloves. That will give you a little more CB. For PvP, you might think about a lot of things.

    I'd seriously look at Clegclaw's Gloves for the Slow and the Knockback. I'd also look into the Dracul's Grasp gloves for the LifeTap and LL. You won't be doing tremendous damage to leach from, but your kicks are really doing the damage in this build anyway, but this might help you.

    The nice thing is you get a pretty darn good attack rating bonus from DTalon. That being said, many PvP characters have insane defense levels. So this might be an issue. Also and issue is hitting your fastest IAS table for the kicks. If you kick fast enough they might not be able to do much edgewise.

    Good luck. I've found all my hybrids to be paper cannons, ill-suited for heavy melee damage. But I still think there is room to tweak an assassin to have high level traps and DTalon. And with all the +skills you are planning right now, you don't want much if any points in DTalon, so you don't get Kicklocked anyway. So last piece of advice is properly tweak your +skills to the optimum. Either just barely get your next kick or just don't get your next kick depending on your preference. Realizing that you get an additional kick for every third point in DTalon.
     
  5. F1R3STR1D3R

    F1R3STR1D3R IncGamers Member

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    Maybe I should take a point from shadow master and get 1 venom (each 2 frame kick applies the psn damage right?)
     
  6. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    I think getting the Venom is an excellent idea. It will be an extra source of damage.

    I'm not sure that you want to be taking the point from SM. Your Shadow Warrior will be laying much lower level traps than you, interfering with your trap damage, unless you are very careful and teach him all the synergy skills for the traps your going to use. The good side is if you do teach him the synergies he will have insane trap damage, whenever his AI actually lays a trap. I don't remember the exact formula for the teaching trick.

    Taking two points from SWeb will not significantly change your trap damage or your CBS damage since it grants an extra bolt at every third level. So level 18 SWeb is the best you can really get from it.

    To weigh on the other side, FB will not effect your LS damage at all. So maxing this will not be important at all if you are never going to use CBS.

    Random, but you might actually want +shadow skill gloves if you are crafting gloves. All your really getting is a slight AR bonus for DTalon from points in MA, since that's your only MA skill. But Shadow Skills affect a great number of skills you will actually use.

    Another random thought, think about getting Dragon Flight. DF is reknownedly good during PvP for closing gaps. It doesn't look like you are planning on using Enigma.

    Last from a silly suggestion standpoint, it might be worth the three or four skill points to get BShield. You might laugh a bit, but it will be in range if you are kicking, doesn't count as a trap, and carries over your venom damage as well and it leeches, too. Its not a lot more damage, but its something to think about, especially if you want to leech life back.

    PS: I'm not sure what you were thinking for Weapon Switch, probably dual +3 Shadow Skill claws. You might look for skills like Venom, Blade Shield, and possibly even DFlight on these claws. You might be able to trade for decent claws with these mods and the +3 Shadow Skill mod. This could save you skill points and get you some of the icing skills that require some skill point investment you don't have because of maxing your trap damage.

    Also don't forget if you can't afford/find/or they just don't exist then I would slap a claw in your stash with +Venom and +BShield so that you can prebuff them, exchanging it for one of your +3 Shadow Skill claws while you cast those two prior to going to a duel. They last long enough to get you through most duels and you have a lot of +skills to help with their durations as well.
     
  7. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    While I'm questioning your gloves choice. Let me throw one more option out there. What about Trang's Gloves.
    1. It will really help your venom damage.
    2. It won't hurt your trap damage, since no glove but Mage Fist could do that and I doubt you'll be casting FB often in a duel.
    3. Few people have resist to Poison in their PvP builds, and they will be concentrating on resist lightning when playing a trapping assassin. Thus not even realizing its the Venom that's killing them.
     
  8. F1R3STR1D3R

    F1R3STR1D3R IncGamers Member

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    Too bad +2 shadow skills can't be on gloves :\, but I like the suggestion of Trangs Gloves

    I'm going to use arkaines valor until I can afford enigma, although I don't think the teleport is really all that big of a bonus because lightning sentry has such a long range, and all the faster run/walk from BoS. Rather I like it most for its +strength bonus for DTalon.

    I don't really want to lower my Shock Web by 2 points because it will lower my FB and LS, and I plan to use these alot in duels.

    I'm not going to use 3 points to get Blade Shield because it has such a short duration and most of the time I probably won't be kicking until I find someone with good fire and lightning absorb.

    Ya my switch will probably be +3 shadow claws (I still have them from my WW sin).

    Hmm how do you teach a Shadow Warrior? :scratch:

    Thanks for all the information and suggestions!!!
     
  9. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    Then I would really suggest the prebuffing the Blade SHield. Your duration should be pretty good. The duration goes up with points in BShield. You have +10 Trap Skills in your inventory, plus god knows how many +all skills in your build. I really think this will give you a decent duration.

    Teaching works like this. For each time you cast SW/SM. They start with no synergies. But as they stay alive, each time they use a skill they have that skill "learned". Thus they have that skill now as a synergy. At whatever level they "learned" skill at. Thus, since the formula for trap level cast by SW and SM is something like 1/2 SW/SM level + 1/3 your level in the trap skill they are using, its possible for a SW to "learn" synergy skills in excess of your hard cap of level 20, since you will only get credit for synergies for hard points you placed in the skill.

    I'm not good at the math, but a SW can learn SWeb, CBS, and DS at level 30, then be using a level 30 LS with a synergy level of 30 instead of 20 in all those skills.

    Now before you start jumping for joy remember that, the AI for SW and SM sucks. They will not cast traps for minutes at a time sometimes. So its very hard to teach them, keep them alive, and then to actually get them to cast their traps when you want them. -- We all got excited for a week around here then we got very frustrated, because the AI isn't there to make this fun or practicle.
     
  10. F1R3STR1D3R

    F1R3STR1D3R IncGamers Member

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    So, if I have all level 20 synergies and a level 44 LS my damage is 8-10414. And the cap for the skills of the Shadow Warrior is 30, but the cap of synergies is 30 so its damage would be 11-7177 or does it have no cap on synergies or skills having level 44 LS and level 44 synergies doing a damage of 16-21386 damage, OR does it have a cap of 30 synergies and no cap on skills having level 30 synergies and 44 LS doing a damage of 14-14986?

    Will I hit a 7/2 Dtalon with that setup?

    About how much attack rating should I get?
     
  11. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    As for learning, I didn't know there were caps of 30 for Shadow warrior skills. But the real answer to this is going to be that counting on your Shadows to cast traps is far too unreliable. It may take you five minutes to get a SW to cast all of its synergies. Then actually getting it to cast traps during your fight might be additionally hard. I'm also not good enough at the math to know what exactly, the damage from a SW's traps will be, suffice it to say we did decide it could do more damage than you can do. But like I say, it was such a headache battling the SW and SM AI that we scrapped the idea. What I will say, is that at decent level SW, if you have "taught" her all the synergies you won't be hurt by her casting a trap here and there.

    THe only question I can answer is the 7/2, that's an IAS question. The IAS tables are in one of the stickies. I don't think it'll be too hard to hit the 7/2/2... if you are using BoS. But if you aren't I think it will be pretty difficult. I remember it requiring somewhere around 68% IAS, with Blade Talons, but I'd look it up.

    AR, you should be ok for non-superdefense builds with your setup. For Bears, Barbs, and Paladins, you may want to not use DTalon, or try it and see how it works for you. It may not be that big a problem.

    At the end of the day, I play almost no PvP. I just read a lot in the Assassin Forum and play PvM. I do find PvP interesting to read and I sometimes learn things that help a lot in PvM. I'd be curious if CBS works at all well in PvP. I also think you should really talk to someone with a little more PvP experience than me. Good luck. I love hybrids.
     

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