I was thinking...

[freezegang]

I was thinking...

This is something to do with Fire Wall, but really, I doubt it would help any rich but curious guts out there as I am the one being curious here...


I have been making several chars after restarting D2 recently... and had problems in making them actually pwn. Especially Hell.


First, as I learn from my experience that MF always start with sorcs, I made sorc.
A CL/FO one, and it sucked.


And made several others, like an MF WW Barb who could do almost nothing with his so-called enough 2500~ AR(that's what the guide says, is it obsolete or what?). It even says that 1200+ max WW dmg can kill Hell Meph in 30 secs. It took 4 times that to finish NM Meph.

And made one skelliemancer, stopping halfway as I noticed that the guide is obsolete. The damage from the skels seem way off and I doubt they could even slay Andy.





Now I'm thinking of making another sorc, not relying on any guides existing here or anywhere in the internet. Make my own, I say.
But that sounds damn stupid since I can't score with help and now say I want to do it on my own? And even so why am I posting here?

I would like to hear some suggestions as I present my half idea of a sorc.




Skillz:


Fire Wall 20
Fire Mastery 20
Tele
Shiver Armor maybe

Support skill ?

---------


I said Fire Wall after finding out that it can deal impressive dmgs at simple slvl20 without synergies(as it doesn't have one) and more than one can be on at a time.


Problem is,

• Would it really be powerful enough? even with 1.3k basic and +160%, it would be quartered to around just 1k per second after resistance. My definition of "powerful" here would be the ability to slaughter Meph in around 30 or 40 secs
• Only two can actually be on at one time, after finding out that casting delay is 1.4 sec and duration of one wall is 3.6 sec. Will I really need to slide in my "support skill"?
• Does Fire Wall work with moat trick?
• How does fcr actually help in this case? Reduce casting delay or what?
• If I do need a "support skill", what should it best be? The first thing I think of is of course, FO. Max FO+Max CM costs only 40 and is quite a pretty helluva unfair spell. But there is one more possible route that actually costs less but may actually be more powerful. Max Meteor and one of its synergies or half half.
• Can I actually run naked? Or just enough fcr so that those cuddly skele dolls will not kill anymore?

So the big problem is which path to choose: Pure Fire or Hybrid.
I assume Pure Fire makes it faster with Meph and Hybrid eases the pain when going through Hell(and FO IMO is the best NM rusher). But I'm always scared of regretting should I choose to dream for faster Meph, and when the time comes I can't actually kill him.

The main problem: can Fire Wall actually be greater than Meteor or was I just blabbering bulldung up there?

And is there any other EXTREMELY EASY and NON-ITEM DEPENDENT build out there I can use? Oh God pity this noob who whines too much.

 

[BunsenBurner]

Re: I was thinking...

Hey man,

I was in the same boat as you... I figued hydra would be cool for a new starter since nobody does it, so i did hydra, firebally, fire mastery, then got to realizing that it sucked pretty bad... single element sorcs do if you don't have the gear.

I had the same epiphany as you: my sorc is now lvl 82 with 20 FO, Firewall, Fire mastery, and 18? cold mastery. Those are hard points, and so far I have +2 all skills, with +1 more fire from magefists.

I worked from scratch and am up to 393mf with regular equip on, 484? on switch. My gear:

p-topaz tarnhelm with 63 mf
35 mf blue ammy
17 meditation Insight staff (has 23 mf but i use for meditation)
ali-baba with 7% mf jewel in it and rhyme on switch for last hits
p-topaz skulders
23% nagel, 30% nagel
goldwrap
magefists
23%mf boots with 20%ias

gheeds with 36% mf
7% mf small charm

I traded early-on for the skulders and tarnhelm from some things I found from nm meph, don't remember what, but everything else i found on my own. Once i get to hell meph, assuming the council doesn't interfere, it takes probably 40 seconds to kill him, maybe less, even with my crappy +skills. 4500 dmg per second firewall stacked up works well, and is especially suited for the moat trick, as meph moves back and forth on the stairs right where you cast firewall.

The main reason I remade sorcs into this is so i could have FO and actually kill the mobs in andy's layer and have a second boss to kill. It takes some practice to get just right, but once you kill the surrounding mobs and get andy solo, you can line the walls up and walk her along through them longways, and doing that she dies in 3-4 good firewalls, giving you her lootz. You just gotta use that stack of barrels in the bottom-right of her layer to your advantage to block her poison and walk her around while you're setting up your walls.

Hope all that helps you decide what you want to do

 

[sirpoopsalot]

Re: I was thinking...

I say this without meaning to offend (or troll) you, but:

To be honest and blunt, I'm somewhat doubtful that your expectations are realistic, or that your playing skills are of "expert" quality. For example, Skele-necros can still roll through the game at a very reasonable pace - even with crappy gear - so I'm very doubtful the guide you mentioned was obsolete (unless you're referring to a guide focusing on Skeleton Mages... those typically suck nowadays ). WW Barbs are very reliant on weapon-damage, but with the right base weapon and a couple other pieces of equipment, they also can waltz through almost anything with relative ease. CL/FO sorcs don't entirely suck (in fact, they're a decent "poor-man's" option) - as long as your expectations are within reason.

That said...

I'm very doubtful that you'll find Firewall to be an adequate solution to your expectations. You're correct that FW has pretty solid damage of its own, but it also has some faults that are just as irritating as many of the other skills/builds that you've already explored.

Firewall is definitely a viable option (especially as a backup-skill), but it's definitely not a top-end solution. (FYI, I've built ~5 different Firewall-using sorcs that have quested through the entire game... I'm not misleading you here).


In all honesty, if you're expecting things to be significantly more powerful than what you've already tried, I think a Hammerdin is really the only remaining option for you. Hammerdins are not particularly great at certain, specific monsters (like Meph), but otherwise they can spank just about everything.

 

[interloop]

Re: I was thinking...

No love for the Blizzsorc? ;/
Blizzsorc has always been my favourite poor-mans mfsorc. Hell andy & meph + Ancient Tunnels + cowlevel = no problem.

 

[Youlan]

Re: I was thinking...

imo cl/fo are area runners like the pits. they're not very good with bosses. skelemancer isnt bad. he was my second built and man i gotta say i love him. Ran the pits with him only had 60 mf and i found a unique griffon, 4x soc monarch with 15ed yes 171def and other
crap which worth um-mal. I started to build up wealth with the skelemancer then i went on a cl/fo with full tal srt, torch and anni. if ur going dual element tal set is a must for low budget and another thing is that u might wanna equit ur merc with an insight for the built

 

[freezegang]

Re: I was thinking...

I say this without meaning to offend (or troll) you, but:

To be honest and blunt, I'm somewhat doubtful that your expectations are realistic, or that your playing skills are of "expert" quality. For example, Skele-necros can still roll through the game at a very reasonable pace - even with crappy gear - so I'm very doubtful the guide you mentioned was obsolete (unless you're referring to a guide focusing on Skeleton Mages... those typically suck nowadays ). WW Barbs are very reliant on weapon-damage, but with the right base weapon and a couple other pieces of equipment, they also can waltz through almost anything with relative ease. CL/FO sorcs don't entirely suck (in fact, they're a decent "poor-man's" option) - as long as your expectations are within reason.

That said...

I'm very doubtful that you'll find Firewall to be an adequate solution to your expectations. You're correct that FW has pretty solid damage of its own, but it also has some faults that are just as irritating as many of the other skills/builds that you've already explored.

Firewall is definitely a viable option (especially as a backup-skill), but it's definitely not a top-end solution. (FYI, I've built ~5 different Firewall-using sorcs that have quested through the entire game... I'm not misleading you here).


In all honesty, if you're expecting things to be significantly more powerful than what you've already tried, I think a Hammerdin is really the only remaining option for you. Hammerdins are not particularly great at certain, specific monsters (like Meph), but otherwise they can spank just about everything.

My WW Barb was using a Doombringer, and I doubt if that's not good enough. But yet, the max WW dmg is just around 1.5k, and since my AR sucks loads it would take a very long time to even finish one Meph run. But the guide simply says that 2.5k AR is enough as long as I have at least 5% dual leech which will remove the need to stop for pots. But I still do need them even with the leech and well, I thought I'll just give up with that guy.

And that CL/FO girl sucks in the way she can't do much dmg.
CL lvl 20, L lvl 15+, LM lvl 20, and the CL max dmg is just 1.2~

And the skeles, I simply referred to the d2wiki and found that the dmg ain't that high. 8 skeles doing around 100 each? And that's not even 100% chance to hit.
Or do I have to rely a lot on revives?

Hammerdin, from what I see in guides, seems to depend on items a lot. Especially HoZ, which will require me a good MF runner to get one of course.


So, I pretend I'm starting again with a new char, and I'd say it's a sorc again.
But will Blizzsorc really work? if compared to Meteorb for doing Meph, which will fare better? Meteorb at least have two elements, but does the orb work with moat?

 

[axxxel]

Re: I was thinking...

No love for the Blizzsorc? ;/
Blizzsorc has always been my favourite poor-mans mfsorc. Hell andy & meph + Ancient Tunnels + cowlevel = no problem.

I started my (propably) last and (definitely) most serious Diablo2 career about two months ago. The last time I played was about three and a half years ago.

I read some guides and the build recommended for making a sorc with lots of dmg per twink was the blizzsorc. One sorc later I can tell you that the recommendation was perfectly right.

Blizzard has a tonne of synergies ergo blizzard can reach high dmg without expensive gear. I decided to get a double spirit, since that will get you at least 50% fcr, 2+ all skills and very decent resistances. Apart from that, use what you find. I found a goldskin which I upgraded with runes found on countessruns and shazam, ~750 def and 35 all res. I recently found a Skin Of The Vipermagi, which has 32 all res (I got lucky, they can be as low as 25), nice fcr and 1+ all skills. I use it unupgraded and it's still good enough!



You are definitely going to need a mercenary. I use an act 2 nm offensive (might) merc. Some guides say that you might want to have a merc with holy freeze, but that's using a faulty mindset: you're not making an exclusive build, you're just trying to get something that works, and for that you need to choose the aura that gives the most dmg, period. Besides, the mercs main job is cold immunes and for that, holy freeze doesn't really help.

Make sure to unidentify all rares that might be interesting. This includes "lame" items as a simple Scythe, since it might have a massive + % enhanced damage bonus, and thus is perfect for upgrading to exceptional or elite level.

ps. you're not looking for some exclusive build that nobody uses (i.e. is hard to get good) but the build that will make you rich enough for other builds in the shortest amount of time.

 

[freezegang]

Re: I was thinking...

Ok so I starts a Bliz and I hope it would get good.

And I won't attempt sliding Fire Wall into that out of fear that I have to restart all over again again again.

 

[Arek]

Re: I was thinking...

in fact, cl/fo and ww barb are weak untwinked. skelemancers are annoying for me too so i understand you in this. to be honest, pure blizzard sorc is the best starting mfer out there. pure fire is weaker in every way, except of andy but who cares.

 

[freezegang]

Re: I was thinking...

Yay thanks for that. I really am unlucky to get any good +skill gears, but somehow managed to get my FO to slvl27, but it sucked because I paused my investment in CM halfway to see if my CL would really work.


Edit:
Arggh suddenly I had this stupid idea of investing one point in Orb. Should I? I'd max CM and Ice Bolt after all?

 

[axxxel]

Re: I was thinking...

What function will the Orb fill to you? What are you going to kill with it?

You're propably kill more with Blizzard from nightmare and on, and when tristrunning et.c. you can use frost nova.

(I haven't tried and I have no idea what sort of damage the FO would do, I'm just speculating)