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I want to cheat!

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Kremtok, Apr 6, 2004.

  1. Kremtok

    Kremtok IncGamers Member

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    I want to cheat!

    Recent discussions have led to the conclusion that we, as a community, need to decide how to deal with "I want to cheat!" threads. This thread is intended to gather the opinions of anyone with an interest in the topic, so that we may reach a consensus. Several options have been presented, and you may feel free to propose alternate methods of dealing with the problem. Ideally, we will be able to discuss several options in this thread, and hold a vote on the ideas that emerge from said discussions.

    I'll begin with my own suggestion:

    One forumite is designated to respond to these threads, with a standard body of text voted on by theforum and approved by the Moderator. Nobody else will post a response of any kind.
     
  2. Augustus

    Augustus IncGamers Member

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    To lay this responsibility on one person is just not right and not necessary.

    Get the post format approved as you wish
    Sticky the post
    Anyone can simply copy and paste to the thread concerned.

    This accomplishes two things. First, it MIGHT actually cut down on the number of those threads because they MIGHT actually read it ahead of time. Second, it alliviates anyone from needing to babysit the forum.

    My $.02
     
  3. Johney

    Johney IncGamers Member

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    This is a good one that windjinn made a while back.

    I take no credit for this, i'm just reposting it.
     
  4. Kaysaar

    Kaysaar IncGamers Member

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    OMG Kremtok you n00b! Cheators are teh suxxor!

    Oh, I see what this thread's all about. Sorry mate. Cheers :buddies:

    ;)

    On a more serious note, I think the standard response sounds good, without being elitist. The only thing I can think of changing is losing the bit about the stadardized response. It makes it sound like a bad answering machine message, and very impersonal.

    Maybe consider ending with: "Have a nice day at the end :howdy:"
     
  5. spiral55

    spiral55 IncGamers Member

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    While I'm all for polite but negative responses, I'm personally opposed to any kind of standardized response. As Kaysaar said, mentioning that it's standardized will make it seem like a form letter that even we don't believe. However, I'll go one step further and argue that the simple fact that it's a standardized response will have exactly the same effect.

    Individual, polite responses addressing the question/request at hand would work best, because then all responses can be tailored to explain specifically why we won't answer certain questions, give away certain items, etc. Once someone has satisfactorily explained the SPF stance, we should all just let the thread die. If the original poster has a follow-up question or rebuttal, of course, I'd hope someone would step in and try again to clarify things. It may not be the most effective way to eliminate cheaters from our midsts or turn them legit, but I think it will create a lot less animosity.

    My 2 coppers, at least...
     
  6. Zertuals_Ovrlrd

    Zertuals_Ovrlrd IncGamers Member

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    Sorry, Kremtok, you won't find info on cheats here. I'd suggest you try goog... er... sorry I guess I should read more than the thread title :p

    Having a standard response is all well and good, but I don't really think we need to assign the duty to one person. Just as long as everyone knows what the response is, anyone can post it.

    However, IMO, what should be emphasized the most is:
    Z_O
     
  7. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    The standard response idea still has some issues that AE is concerned with. (and about which I've been awaiting his response for several days.) I think that, for now, we need to do a firm but polite personalized response. A form response could be good, but its application needs to be understood by everyone, and i saw that one used on a question about a mod, for example, and that's not the case in which it should be used--all that needs to be specified.

    So, my vote is to currently wait on a standard response until we can get a final ruling from AE, and, until then, write individual responses and not flame people.
     
  8. WhiskeyJack

    WhiskeyJack IncGamers Member

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    I had orginally voted for the standard response, but the more I think about it, the less I like the idea. It doesn't take a minute for someone to write 'this forum in general considers that kind of hack/program/squid to be a cheat, so you'll have to look it up on google or something like that' Hopefully, that can be followed up by (as many questions often are) 'what's your problem in general? there are quite a few people who may be able to help you figure out a legit way' etc.

    I think basic guidelines ought to just be followed- say what's what, point out the forum faq and any others that apply, and keep flaming to a minimum. Other than that, I think this topic is going to wear pretty fast, since we're always going to have the occasional 'hey, i want to find a trainer' type posts. If someone is asking something you think reportable (trading duped, hacked items), then by all means, let A_E know, but don't then flame the person, as this just brings the whole level of quality we like here down.

    just my 2ccs
     
  9. ricrestoni

    ricrestoni IncGamers Member

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    I think that a polite but strong non-standarized(sp?) answer must be given, and after that, no one else should post. A flame started by an occasional rude inquirer should become a new storyline with a twist.
     
  10. My_Immortal6

    My_Immortal6 IncGamers Member

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    You are all missing the main point, in which the perpatrator should be viciously wacked with a large aquatic creature.
     
  11. esd

    esd IncGamers Member

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    Here's my Ls 0.02.
    The first response is usually OK in those threads. We simply shouldn't post anymore responses after the necessary things have been said. If someone wants to start an argument leave him alone so he can argue with himself.
     
  12. Uzziah

    Uzziah IncGamers Member

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    I think that once the thread has been answered what gets the thread and posters in trouble is that people continue to post and most times flame the person asking the question. Just because someone doesn't read the FAQ or other sticked rules and regulations doesn't mean they are stupid just lazy. Think about how many don't read all the rules and regulations on the back of their cell phone contract or their car loan. Heck I make my living on Sub-contractors who forget or don't care to read whats in their contracts.

    I say that someone should post the stance of the SPF and then everyone should let the thread die and fall far from the top of the first page.
     
  13. spiral55

    spiral55 IncGamers Member

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    I think I didn't express my idea properly. What I meant to say was that if the person who asked the question has an intelligent, polite rebuttal that he/she feels what they want to do isn't cheating, then whoever responds should feel free to debate with them in a similar manner. If the other person stoops to flaming, then, of course, let the thread die.

    Remember, we were once told by the admins that using ATMA is cheating, and it was through polite discourse that we were able to prove that it wasn't. Is something like that likely to happen again? No, but just in case... :)

    Another point I forgot to mention earlier: If someone posts asking for a particular hard-to-find item, can we please not automatically assume their intention is to cheat? While the chances of that are remote, we really shouldn't assume. I have to imagine that there are a lot of people who came here from bnet and thus don't really realize how RARE some items are. And this is where things like the item find thread and the daily thread, while both great, great things, can haunt us. If somebody sees enough posts saying "I found sacred armor" (to use the most recent example of the SPF immediately assuming somebody was cheating), they could possibly assume it's easy to find. I'm not saying we should give them whatever item(s) they seek, but we could just inform them that they'll be very unlikely to get it/them due to the rarity. This is another reason why I think the standardized response fails.

    I know the SPF is hardly a court of law, but I think that an "innocent until proven guilty" approach will work here.
     
  14. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    you should treat those who flame peple in the threads as serious as those who ask the thread. that will convince everyone not to flame, s you onyl get inormatie, polite respnces utnil AE feels the question has been answered and can close the thread.
     
  15. tragor

    tragor IncGamers Member

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    If I may be so bold, it seems that concensus is already starting:

    1. Stay with personal responses rather than a standard (though a standard sticky seems reasonable)

    2. State the SPF position without malice, flames or taunts. Offer advice without sounding elitist.

    3. Feel free to answer legitimate questions

    4. Try not to assume cheating (unless it's obvious)

    5. If the thread starter persists, resorts to flames or the thread generally degrades, stop posting and let it die.

    I think the most important thing is to keep emotion on the bench. Knee-jerk or heated responses generally receive the same in return. If we can just say what we mean in a clear, calm way, there shouldn't be a problem. If the starter can't respond in kind then we let the whole thing die.

    My 2c (I think we've got almost enough for a coke now :lol: )
     
  16. i_marsolek

    i_marsolek IncGamers Member

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    I am against a standardized response, and especially against not having people post in "cheat" type threads. I don't think this game and how the spf operates will allow enough cut and dry situations to make a standardized response worth while. How many times have people who have been here for awhile and feel they know what the forum is about, post something only to have someone later think it was a cheat or against the forum or somewhere inbetween?

    I like it when someone posts "Need IK armor pleaz" and I see that it has 20 posts on it already before I even open it. Seeing that all of the forums members in someway or another felt strongly enough to post the same basic idea 20 times says a lot about the community and the cohesiveness of its members. Not only that but each person may give a little different perspective on what the SPF stands for and how they think the game should be played. Thus the person new to the forum gains a little insight about its members and recieves a good dose of policy.

    Personally I haven't seen enough of these types of threads to really worry too much, but I have quite a bit of patience for this sort of thing, and maybe after awhile it will run thin.
     
  17. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    As wildjinn said, I've been sitting on his PM to me about making a standard response available. i_marsolek, you just hit my biggest concern on the head:
    I'm not sure we can write any standard response that fits the wide variety of questions. Trainers, item packs, lvl99 chars, game mods, -act, -seed, bots, .... Very difficult to cover in one swipe.

    I like tragor's summary. I could add a link to a couple of "sample responses" for some of the simpler matters (lvl99 chars & items packs for example) from our main SPF FAQ already stickied. Forum members could locate these quickly to help them respond.
     
  18. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    Hooray! I am glad that we have come to an agreement! I have always been against a standard response, but not specifically for the reasons listed above. I just didn't want people to think we are high and mighty, perhaps a trifle arrogant even. The reasons above are very valid, though.

    I want people to come here to play the game in whatever their play style happens to be, just so long as it is SP, it's OK with me. If they cheat, that's their loss. We just have to be clear that we won't tolerate their hacked items or hacked characters.
     
  19. Herkimer Blades

    Herkimer Blades IncGamers Member

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    I want to cheat

    Has anyone considered or is it even possible to start a "cheaters" forum here? That way, cheating questions would be off topic in the SPF.
     
  20. WhiskeyJack

    WhiskeyJack IncGamers Member

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    a cheaters forum? that's a touchy one. what's cheating? -seed/act5 are seen as ok by some, under varied circumstances, and by others as an absolute cheat, some thing the same about ATMA even. also, I would imagine that the site has to keep a no-3rd party program thing in order to keep blizz happy, so they can't discuss that much either (where atma and mod games fit in to this I don't have a clue, although it seems modding discussions are very limited in scope usually). in addition, we already have the FAQ on game altering issues. we can agree that dupes/hacks are bad, but some people think modding is ok, while others think it should be banned from discussion. I don't think a forum, or even a separate OT thread would work- too many people have too many varied opinions, and most legit players would ignore it...plus, I can see such a thread being a beacon to flamming arguments....

    I think the basic response I've been seeing has been best so far- someone says pretty quick the general forum stance (against hacks, dupes, etc), and usually, when people are being friendly, ask about specific character issues, or what the problem might be, in order to show that a) we're friendly, even if we won't condone the hack/cheat, b) we have knowledge that we're willing to share (well, some do, and I'm often in awe of he depth of it for some of you folks). This seems to bring some people around 'oh, I didn't realize' type statements, discussion is encouraged, and people are educated.

    I agree with bob, flamers should be dealt with as harshly as the people asking about the hack/cheat/malicious trades (if they persist) . If anything is bringing the forum atmosphere down, it's the holier than thou attitude combined with a lack of respect on some people's part. Even people that flame and say 'whoa, it's a joke' need to consider the context their posting in, or at least i think so.

    just my thoughts
    WJ
     

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