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I need some advice about smite pvp

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by asdfghjkl, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. asdfghjkl

    asdfghjkl IncGamers Member

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    I need some advice about smite pvp

    Ok, currently I have a smite/foh pvp paladin. He's lvl85 and has about 2500 life, 2400-2500 smite damage, 1700 foh damage, 18k defense, 75% block, 75 resist all in hell. I duel mostly in public games (ladder) and against my friend's smiter and ww barb. I do pretty good in the public games, but it's my friend I am having trouble with.

    His smiter is lvl85 and has (according to him) 1200 life, 1700 smite damage, 20-25k defense, and I think max block.

    Now, here is the kicker. I lose all the time. Yes, all the time. It makes me wonder what item is allowing him to beat me, because from looking at the numbers there is no way I can lose. Here are some items that I know he wears against me:
    Astreon's
    Upgraded Herald (or Exile Vortex)
    Dracul's

    I can tell when Lifetap is activated, his life bar doesn't go down as fast. But what I can't tell is how in the world he is doing so much damage to me. I'm guessing it's the Astreon's +damage bug, but does it really make that much of a difference? Some may suggest I too wear Dracul's, but I don't want to because I want to play as clean as possible. I also don't have any Open Wound or Crushing Blow. Does CB make a big difference in pvp?

    I don't know, I'm just confused as to why a character with more life, more damage, same fpa would lose to a character with less life and damage. This is my third pvp paladin build (all three were specifically built versus my friend), and I was hoping this would be able to stand up against him.

    Some more info about my paladin. I have maxed smite, holy shield, fist of heavens, and fanatcism. One point in all the pre-reqs and the rest into defiance. I have a Call to Arms on switch, but I won't be using it anymore. Base life without BO is 1800. When dueling, I usually use charge to namelock/lock/block lock/target the opponent, then switch to smite. If I don't lock 'em, I either shift+charge away and foh or charge back in. Versus my friend, I try to do the charge lock thing and smite. I can get him down to 1/4 or so life, but I always lose. Maybe I lack the skills. If anyone has any advice, I'd appreciate it.
     
  2. Mr.Glasscock

    Mr.Glasscock Banned

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    use your foh then, cus i do think he has a small advantage over you on smite. I dontknow bout that bug u mentioned, but his lifetap will definitely give him an edge if you smite vs. smite. A smite/foh should have points in conviction, i dontknow if you have any. You really should; if you do, then just foh him to death, unless he stacks lr.. you dindt mention his resists i think.

    If you're already using cta while dueling him, you're not dueling clean so just wear draculs and / or exile and finish off being bad mannered. Also the speed, make sure you have max smite speed. Maybe he does and you dont, that would definitely be a reason. I know you mentioned it was the same..but check anyway cus that is a hugeee factor.

    So if your friend is only smite and nothing else, either foh him as much as possible to weaken him and finish him off w/ smite... or you could use hf; either your own , or use that pos doom's hf to slow him down. Hope this helps. :surprise:
     
  3. mrJ

    mrJ IncGamers Member

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    Just a thought:

    Astreon's Iron Ward
    Caduceus
    +(240-290)% Enhanced Damage
    Slows Target by 25%
    (150-200)% Bonus to Attack Rating
    +10% Increased Attack Speed
    Damage Reduced by (4-7)
    Damage +(40-85)
    +(2-4) to Offensive Auras (Paladin Only)
    33% Chance of Crushing Blow
    Adds 80-240 Magic Damage

    This sexy little number has Slow on it, I'm not saying that's the answer, but I hope that info helps a little.
     
  4. asdfghjkl

    asdfghjkl IncGamers Member

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    Yea, I know about the CtA, I was used to using it in the public games. I won't be using it again though. And no, I didn't go with Conviction this time. I may have to rebuild my pvp paladin again... damnit. If I went with Conviction, it would be lvl12 and -85% resists with my current setup... damn that would definitly kickass with my foh in hell. My friend's paladin and barb both have max (75%) resist I believe. I have max smite speed with my lvl31 Fanaticism. I use a Silence Phase Blade. According to the speed calculator, I need 7%IAS to hit 6FPA smite, and I do exactly that. For reference, here is what I currently equip:

    Harlequin Crest (looking for Ber rune)
    Upgraded Herald of Zakarum with Ber rune
    Enigma Wire Fleece
    Silence Phase Blade
    3% Bul Kathos' Wedding Band
    20 Dex Raven Frost
    36/15 Verdungo's Hearty Cord
    11/15 Sandstorm Trek with 46%PR
    Upgraded Vampirebone Bloodfist
    +3 Combat Skills Amulet

    In my inven, I have:
    +1 Offensive Skill GC
    1/20/18/7 Annihilus
    4x Small Charm of Balance (I only need two though)
    some defense charms
    rest are all life charms

    I forgot about the "slows target" mod on Astreon's. But I thought I read somewhere that the "slow" mod on items no longer works in pvp. I just read through Pravda's guide, and he says that for smite duels, the one with more life and more damage (ie, me) should win. I was hoping for more tactics than that. Range on the two weapons is the same, both have a range of 2. I still don't get it. Anymore help/advice is welcomed greatly.

    Just to add: I don't really want to "pwn", own, noob him whatever. For one thing, I just want to know how he can whoop me so badly with less damage and less life. It boggles my mind. I'll be happy if I can get 50/50 with his paladin. His barb, on the other hand, is a different story. His barb is his jewel, his little baby. I wouldn't mind coming out 100/0, but that would be too mean. And fun.
     
  5. Pravda

    Pravda IncGamers Member

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    If you can't tank him, don't try do it. Try a new weapon like a malice phase blade. Charge in, smite once and shift-charge away. Then try to avoid him for a few seconds (keep him frozen if you have holy freeze) and let open wounds drain some of his life, and repeat. It can look pretty cheap, but hey, he's using life tap. Also, since he only has 1200life, crushing blow would do that much of a difference I think.
     
  6. Halbreed7250

    Halbreed7250 IncGamers Member

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    |
    |
    |
    |------> wouldn't
     
  7. asdfghjkl

    asdfghjkl IncGamers Member

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    Funny thing, I just made a Malice Phase Blade thinking of doing the exact same thing... But it goes against what I'm trying to achieve, so I'll leave it for the public games. I know he wears Dracul's/Exile and Lifetap is a femaledog to deal with, but I can't tell him how to play the game. I was thinking about switching to Guillame's Face for the crushing blow, but at 6FPA, smite isn't fast enough to be effective, in my opinion. Actually, even with my first version pvp paladin, crushing blow wasn't useful in pvp (it was a holyfreeze zealot).

    I can't tank him, but as far as I can tell I should be able to. It's just that he smites me maybe 3, 4 times or so and I'm dead. I get about the same number of smite into him as well, but he is alive and well. He has 50% DR, I have 41% DR. He does 1700 listed smite, I do 2500 listed smite. With the 1/6 penalty and DR, he should be receiving 2500/16 *0.50 = 208.3 damage per smite. With 3 smite, that is 625 damage. I receive 1700/6 *0.41 = 116.2 damage per smite. With 3 smite, that is 348.6 damage... I have (with the BO) 2500 life. But I die in 3 to 4 smites (so that is 348.6 to 464.7 damage). I don't know the +damage stats on his Astreons, but if I take the average of 62.5 raw damage and add that to smite damage, I receive about 348.6 + 62.5*3 = 536.1 damage to 464.7 + 62.5*4 = 714.7 damage total (3 or 4 smites). Either way, the damage is less than my total life. Only thing I can think of is that the "slows target" mod is really slowing me down, making me smite at 7 or 8 FPA. If that's the case, he may be getting more like 5 or 6 hits into me while I only get 2 to 3. That would be a bummer.
     
  8. Pravda

    Pravda IncGamers Member

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    ???????????????????
     
  9. Vindi66

    Vindi66 Banned

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    How much DR do you have? Try putting on a shaft and dueling him once. If he uses LT and you don't you will not win. Get some combat charms too.
     
  10. strength_honor

    strength_honor Banned

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    Let me solve your like problem ok ?

    From what I see you have 41% DR only and I am assuming your friend has 49% DR

    you do 2500 dmg and your friend do 1700 dmg ...that is...

    2500/6*0.51 = 212.5
    1700/6*0.59 = 167.2+( 40 to 85 ) = 207.2 - 252.2

    The Scepter add dmg does not recieve any kind of PvP penalty and your friend also have Open Wound and Crushing Blow so...he could be dealing like 300 + dmg per hit compare to your 212.5 smite.
     
  11. asdfghjkl

    asdfghjkl IncGamers Member

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    Yea, you're math is correct, strength_honor. Why did I use 0.41... I must have been tired. He has 50%+ DR with shaft, crown of ages and verdungo's. Damage would be similar to what you've calculated.

    The other mystery would be life. If he is infact doing 300+ damage per smite against my 2500 life, while I am dealing 212.5 damage per smite against his 1200 life, let's see... it would take 2500/300 = 8+ smite to kill me while it takes me 1200/212/5 = 5+ smite to kill him. This isn't taking into account the CB. If CB does activate, it should only take off 1/10 of my life. Open wounds doesn't activate that often, but if it does, it would deal 25*(85*45-1319)/256/4 = 61.2 damage per second. In 8 seconds, that would be 489.6 damage. Most of the time, open wounds does not trigger. His lifetap triggers more often than his open wounds.

    I guess it would make sense if he was doing double the damage I am with half the life. By the way, can anyone confirm whether "slows target" mod works in pvp or not? Arreat's Summit just says that it is capped at 50% for pvp. I take it that it does actually work. I suppose I could go test it with a kelpie snare or something.
     
  12. strength_honor

    strength_honor Banned

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    Crushing Blow works in PvP but it goes through the Dmg Reduction Penalty so he take off like maybe 1/30 ~ 1/40 life only per hit.

    Slow Target works... not that useful considering you guys just smash each other's face in. Slow target used by a Sorc, Zon or Necro...now thats good.
     

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