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I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by shallowprofile, Apr 18, 2008.

  1. shallowprofile

    shallowprofile IncGamers Member

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    I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    I know exactly what I'm gonna equip her with...

    Level ** Completed Build

    Equipment:
    Helm: Shako - 2 skills, 132 life, 132 mana, 10% DR, 2 to all stats, 50 MF + IST 25 MF; Level 62, 50 Strength
    Amulet: Mara’s– 2 skills, 20/25/30 all resists, 5 to all stats; Level 67
    Weapon: Oculus – 3 skills, +5 mana per kill, 20 all resists, 30 FCR, 20 vit, 20 energy, 50 MF + IST 25 MF, Level 42
    Weapon2: Wizspike on Switch for 50 FCR Teleporting, Level 61, 38 Strength, 75 Dexterity
    Shield: “Sanctuary” – +20% chance to block, 20 FBR, 20 FHR, 20 dex, 50-70 all resists, Mal Rune Level 49
    Shield2: Lidless Wall on Switch for 20 FCR Teleporting, Level 41, Strength 58
    Body: “Enigma” – 2 skills, 45 FRW, 1 teleport, 66 str, maximum life +5%, 8% DR, 14 life per kill, 15% damage to mana, ** MF, Jah Rune Level 65
    Gloves: Bloodfist – 30 FHR, 40 life, Level 9
    Belt: Dungo’s – 10 FHR, 30-40 vit, 15% DR, Level 63, Strength 106
    Boots: War Trav’s - 25 FRW, 10 vit, 10 str, 50 MF, Level 42, Strength 95
    Ring1: SoJ - 1 skills, increase mana 25%, 20 mana, Level 29
    Ring2: Raven– 20 dex, CBF, 20% cold absorb, 40 mana, Level 45

    Charms:
    Annihilus: +1 skills, 10-20 to all stats, 10-20 all resists, Level 70
    Torch: +3 skills, 10-20 to all stats, 10-20 all resists, Level 75
    Gheeds: 40 MF, Level 62
    Small Charm of Good Luck x26: 182 MF, Level 29

    Total Stats:
    +14 to all skills
    +1 teleport
    +172 life
    +14 life per kill
    increase maximum life 5%
    +192 mana
    +5 mana per kill
    increase maximum mana 30%
    +27-47 to all stats
    +76 strength
    +20 dexterity
    +60-70 vitality
    +20 energy
    15% damage taken goes to mana
    20% faster block rate
    60% faster hit recovery
    30% faster cast rate
    70% faster run/walk
    33% damage reduction
    510% magic find
    110-160 all resists
    20% cold absorb
    cannot be frozen



    What I'm not sure about is the Skill Build!

    Skill Build:
    Cold Tree
    1 ice bolt
    1 ice blast
    1 frost nova
    1 glacial spike
    1 blizzard
    20 frozen orb
    8+ cold mastery
    Lightning Tree
    1 static field
    Fire Tree
    1 warmth
    1 fire bolt
    1 blaze
    1 inferno
    20 fire ball
    1 fire wall
    20 meteor
    20 fire mastery
    Total: 99 Skill Points, finished at Level **, remaining skill points all go into Cold Mastery.



    And I'm not sure if this is the best merc for her!

    Mercenary Details
    Nightmare, Act 2, Holy Freeze Merc
    Level **
    Equipment:

    Weapon: “Obedience” (Hel+Ko+Thul+Eth+Fal) Superior 5-socket Polearm (Thresher or Giant Thresher) – 30% chance for level 21 enchant per kill, 40 FHR, 370% ED, -25 target defense, 3-14 cold damage (3 second duration), -25 enemy fire resist, 40 CB, 200-300 defense, 10 str, 10 dex, 20-30 all resists, -20% requirements. (ethereal preferred)
    Helm: Vampire Gaze – 8% LL, 20% DR, adds 6-22 cold damage (4 second duration), magic damage reduced by 15. (ethereal preferred)
    Armor: Leviathan – 25% DR, 40-50 str. (ethereal preferred)

    Socketing Choices:
    Cham for Cannot Be Frozen
    Ber for 8% DR
    Pul for 30% Enhanced Defense
    Shael for 20% Faster Hit Recovery



    Please help! What would be the best skill build for a sorc with this equipment and max block? I'm thinking of doing Frozen Orb / Meteor because of my lack of FCR. Is lightning completely impossible with no FCR? Should I do Orb/Meteor? Or maybe orb/firewall? Blizz/Meteor? Help!
     
  2. ProfessionalBerg

    ProfessionalBerg IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    My my, what a waste of expensive equipment... Just stick with full Tal's for better performance AND at 1/20th - 1/30th of your gear cost.

    1. Oculus completely pales in comparison to Tal's Orb's -15% resistances and +15% cold damage. Nothing beats Tal Orb for a dual-element sorceress. Nothing. Put a +x/-5 Fire Facet in the Orb to deal more damage to resistant monsters.

    2. Tal's Armor, while not providing +skills, does provide incredible MF (Up to 112% with a Ptopaz inserted), awesome resists and more.

    3. Tal's Amulet beats Mara's in that it provides FCR

    4. Tal's Belt provides more MF% (10-15), and it has FCR and other sweet mods like +Dexterity and +Mana (which you'll need). Having a 'Dungo on a caster character is like using a Ferrari to cultivate fields.

    5. Tal's Mask, while not that imporessive at all, does provide some (moderately) useful bonuses like resists and BOable mana and life. Ptopaz it as well, for great MF%.

    Switch: Put on a Gull + Rhyme for a huge 125% MF boost (155% if you Ist the Gull).

    Gloves: are you kidding me?? Bloodfist?? Get Magefists/Trang's Gloves for FCR ASAP!

    Ring2: Raven is not needed for a sorceress, since pretty much all she will do is teleport around. And the +dex is not needed either if you follow my next advice.

    Shield: Spirit hands down. The only real alternative would be a Stormshield (Sanctuary is not so good, and it does not have DR%), but Stormshield is only if you go the max-block route. I (and 90% of other D2 players) prefer a Spirit on a Sorceress, due to it's:

    Massive +mana
    Reasonable +life
    Moderate resists
    HUGE FHR% (55%!! Add the 25% from Tal's and you are only 6% off the 86% FHR breakpoint)
    +2 Skills (oh yeah)
    And last, but one of the most important: 25-35% FCR. Do NOT underestimate importancy of FCR for a sorceress (unless she's a meleesorc)

    The only true disadvantage of Spirit is it's lack of block. But then you can just pump Vitality instead of Dexterity, and go with Max Vita, and not Max Block route.

    If you go for a CL/FO hybrid, you will have to use 2x 10FCR rings to hit the 117% FCR breakpoint for Lightning and Chain Lightning. If you go Meteorb, those slots are better off taken by something like SOJ's.

    Skills:

    Assuming you will use Full Tal's + Torch + Anni, you will have a grand total of +10 Sorceress skills (+11 Fire Skills with the Magefists), and an additional 1-2 to each Mastery. With this, you will have level 11-12 Cold Mastery without investing a SINGLE skillpoint. Level 11-12 CM = -70-75% enemy Cold Resistance - more than enough for most enemies you'll meet. Of course, you can pump it for more offensive potential versus resistant enemies like Mephisto, but against him, I usually prefer Fireball/Meteor anyway.

    Your best bet is imporoving upon the offensive capabilities of your Fire tree:

    20 Fireball
    20 Meteor
    20 Fire Mastery
    Rest Fire Bolt

    Merc:

    Weapon: 2 choices here: Infinity for massive Crushing Blow and for reducing non-immune resistances to ash (Meph would drop dead in 2-3 seconds), or Insight (for most people, mana shortage can be a problem). I, personally, prefer Insight, since I hate chugging mana pots all the time.

    Armor: Eth Bugged Fort is the way to go: it increases your merc's leeching capabilities by ALOT.

    Helm: Andariel's Visage hands down -> IAS, +skills, good leech, etc. Socket it with a Fire Resist jewel or a Ral rune to negate the FR penalty.

    As for what merc to choose:

    - Might for more offensive capability - he can do MASSIVE DAMAGE like this
    - Defiance for better survivability
    - Prayer if you use Insight. You will never need Health Potions again

    Holy Freeze is not needed, since your FO already provides enough crowd control as it is.

    Also, LOL! Leviathan cannot spawn ethereal, since it has an inherent indestructibility.

    WHEW! A lengthy answer to a lengthy post...
     
  3. Noite Escura

    Noite Escura IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    I have to disagree with Stormshield being the only blocking alternative. Really I don't understand why people is so biased for it in PvM. If you go with block you are already negating 75% of the physical damage you take, and you already spent 200+ dex to get max block, so why invest 80+ more str only to get 35% DR that will be applied only to the 25% not blocked attacks? I would rather use the rest of the stats to get more life and get additional protection against elemental attacks. I usually go for up'ed Viscerataunt on dual element builds and Whitstan's on pure tree ones. Sorry if I hijacked the thread with this opinion :)
    Edit: though as the OP uses Enigma it may not hurt in the str req to equip SS, but he may have resist problems by leaving Sanctuary out of planning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2008
  4. shallowprofile

    shallowprofile IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    True, one of the best things about tal's set is the +15/+15/-15 modifiers.

    You're right tal's armor is also very good for mf.

    That's true tal's amulet does give 10% fast cast rate if you equip the entire set.

    Well I like Dungo cause it has damage reduction and faster hit recovery. If you hadn't noticed I was trying to make a build that is overpowered to do its job here.

    You're right about that tal's mask is one of the poor items in the tal's set.

    Bloodfist gives 30% faster hit recovery, something that I found to be the most useful mod from unique gloves for this character and build. I don't need extra mana from frostburn, and a meteorb sorc doesn't need fast cast rate at all whatsoever, so no point for fast cast rate. I would equip a chance guard for more mf if it turns out this extra 30% faster hit recovery is unnecessary.

    Well this is a max block route build, so +dex from raven is pretty useful. Saves me 20 stat points. Cannot be frozen is also an important mod to have. I like max block, and i like to spend my points as a sorc in dex and vit. with max block, I avoid 75% of all attacks period. Meaning I am getting 75% damage reduction at all times. Without it, I would have about 5% block meaning 5% damage reduction.

    Spirit is a good shield, but not for a max block sorc. Stormshield is a good choice for max block, but that requires 156 strength, a drain on points that could be spent in vit. You say here that the huge faster hit recovery is so important, yet you say my choice in bloodfist for gloves is useless. Again, fast cast rate is simply not needed for meteorbs. When i'm teleporting i use my wizpike and lidless to reach that breakpoint. I don't care how high your fcr is, those orbs and meteors aren't coming out any faster.

    Sanctuary is actually a very good shield for max block, it has a comparable chance to block as a stormshield when socketed into an appropriate shield, and it gives 50-70 to all resists, something that mf sorcs need to max for efficiency. I already have 33% damage reduction from my other equipment, and I have 75% blocking from my shield. Damage reduction will never be as useful as 75% chance to block.

    This is true, Spirit is for people who don't use max block. With my set up, I'll spend about 100 points into dexterity, and 350 into vitality. I don't have to put anything into strength or energy.

    That does sound tempting to use tal's set so that I don't need to put any hard points into cold mastery. In fact, I chose enigma because of its high strength bonus and teleport so that I would save 2 skill points and about 70 stat points as well. The tal's orb way of saving the 1 point in cold mastery doesn't really give me as much. I have been considering however, just putting 1 point in cold mastery.

    Then the build would be something like:
    Cold: 5 prereq, 20 frozen orb, 1 cold mastery
    Light: 1 static field
    Fire: 3 prereq, 1 warmth, 8+ fire bolt, 20 fire ball, 20 meteor, 20 fire mastery

    So I would have extra 7 synergy points in fire bolt, instead of in cold mastery, at level **. Would really like more input in the way of personal experience here.

    Obedience was my choice for the -25% to enemy fire resistance, and it has the same crushing blow as Infinity. Don't need insight on meteorb sorcs either, imo.

    Fort is a great choice for all mercs. I personally like to stack damage reduction on my mercs however, and like leviathan/vamp gaze combo the most, as it gives me freedom to use whatever weapons i want.

    Again, a good helm of choice for any merc. I just like to stack damage reduction. 25 from leviathan and 20 from vampgaze is 45% damage reduction. I get enough lifeleech from the vgaze as well. Socketed with an Um and a Ber, I will have max resists at level **, and also 53% damage reduction, allowing me to equip just about any weapon I want.


    Thanks for the first big reply!

    Noite is right, since I'm going max block, I wanted to put minimal points in strength, i.e. 0. That's why i dropped stormshield and looked for damage reduction elsewhere. With shako, nigma, and dungo, I have 33% damage reduction and a slew of other strong stats. Visceratuant is a great shield for max block route, but you were right again that i had to make up for my lack of resists by using sanctuary, which in its own right is a fine shield for max block as well. In a base 44% block shield, (tower shield, pavise, aegis, or hyperion) it gets a total of 64% chance to block, and 20% faster block rate to prevent stun locks. Haven't had a problem with just 20% faster block yet.

    In fact, I am using enigma for the sole purpose of saving me the trouble of putting ANY points into strength at all. I've worked it out so that I have to put minimal points into dexterity for max block, and everything else can go into vitality. At level **, i believe i'll have max block, and something like 350 hard points into vitality. I think that for those going max block, Sanctuary is a great choice for maxing resists.

    I think the biggest advantages of this build are the following:

    +14 to all skills (maybe not enough for a light sorc, but plenty for a meteorb)
    +1 teleport (saves you the trouble of putting 2 hard points into lightning tree for this)
    +103-123 strength (waiting until you can equip anni and torch allows you to put 0 points into strength for all gear)
    +47-67 dexterity (saves another slew of points that can now be spent in vitality)
    20% faster block rate (just enough to most always avoid block-locking)
    60% faster hit recovery (probably will never die by getting stun locked while teleporting)
    30% faster cast rate (very low, but swap weapons for teleporting)
    70% faster run/walk (very fast for a sorc, probably not necessary though)
    33% damage reduction (added security for the 25% of attacks that get through shield)
    510% magic find (probably more than necessary, but most comes from small charms anyway)
    110-160 all resists (depending on stats of your anni, torch, and sanctuary)
    20% cold absorb
    cannot be frozen

    High HP: +346-406 life + ~350 points into vitality = 700 life = 1046-1106 life + 40 base life = 1086 -1146 life + increase maximum life 5% = 1140.3 - 1203.3 life +14 life per kill

    Sufficient Mana: +286-328 mana + 35 base mana = 321-363 mana + increase maximum mana 30% = 417.3-471.9 mana +5 mana per kill, 15% damage taken goes to mana



     
  5. UberB

    UberB IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    Just because Meteor and Orb have cast delays doesn't mean you don't need FCR. Fireball is your main spell - and it has no cast delays. Same goes for Teleport which you will obviously use a lot. I like hitting the 105 FCR breakpoint which can be achieved with Full Tal's, Magefists and a 35% FCR Spirit. Honestly, on your main switch you'll only have 30 FCR from the Oculus. That's going to be very very slow.

    I agree with the above that the Tal's set is the best, nothing can beat the set bonus. You can even add facets in for more ownage. Don't believe me? Read this.
    http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=151250
    With the Tal's you can opt to go with Stormshield for max block, but trust me - max block isn't really useful on a sorc. If you have a merc, he will be taking all the heat and slowing everything down to boot (holy freeze merc that is). Teleport is honestly your best defense against blockable attacks. But when you go up against those Souls, you'll find them rather difficult with low life.
     
  6. ProfessionalBerg

    ProfessionalBerg IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    Well, it's YOUR sorc, after all, you can do whatever you want with it.

    Saying that FCR is not important for a Meteorb.....................

    ...

    ...

    ...

    I don't understand you. How do you plan to teleport? How do you plan to SPAM FIREBALLS LIKE MAD (One of the strongest points of a meteorb is spammability of Fireballs, after all).

    I already understood that you go for Max Block. But in that case, FHR is not really that important, since you will block 3/4ths of physical attacks, and with maxed resists, it's harder to send you into a FHR with an elemental attack as well.

    Enigma for teleport... Well, your choice, but this armor just doesn't do it for me - besides the +skills, big strength boost and a bit of MF (I consider DR% a minor thing here), it really doesn't shine on a sorc. Saving 2 skill points by forcing yourself to wear only an Enigma is kinda self-restrictig, IMHO.

    +14 to all skills loses to the +10/11 to all skills and the -15% fire res/+15% cold damage on a Tal Orb. Hands down. +3 skills do not add as much damage as those 2 modifiers do.

    Consider this: an orb doing an average of 400 damage gets +3 skills added. Let's say the average grows by 12 for each. That gives end damage of 400+12*3=400+36=436. Now, with Tal Orb, you get 400*1,15=460 damage. May not seem much, but when you consider that a single cast of FO releases more than 40 bolts, the difference is much more dramatical.

    Same applies to -% fire resistance, especially versus resistant enemies like Mephisto. With +3 skills you will get what, 300-500 more damage on your fireball, and 500-1000 damage more on Meteorb? How about a 60% increase in damage versus Mephisto??

    Normally, Meph has 75% fire resists. This makes you deal only 25% of full damage to him with fire attacks. Now add the Tal Orb to the mix. BAM! 60% left. You now do 40% of full damage. 40/25=1,6. That's 60% more damage!

    (On a side note, the -% enemy fire resist on Obedience only applies to the one who is wearing it, that is, the merc himself, but not you). That said, Obedience is a good weapon, especially good to crush bosses with it's 40% CB. However, I find myself often run out of mana without Insight, so I choose to go with it. Much more convenient and less distractions in the way.

    I have about the same amount of life you do. 22 Vita from Spirit, 317 from Tal's set, and the rest from Torch/Anni. What's more, the life from Tal's Set is BO-able, meaning it will get multiplied by Battle Orders. Life/level from Shako and Vita from 'Dungo (and Spirit, but that's irrelevant here) are not BO-able.

    My base mana is almost 600 (and I still experience mana problems :tongue: You should consider an Insight): +179 from Tal set and +100-ish from Spirit (both BO-able, BTW) + base/level. I have almost 600 mana.

    My resists are maxed, by the way, and I spent almost no effort in getting this (I have a low anni and a medium Torch, but that's all...)

    With this FCR, you have to sacrifice the switch to teleport around (which could have been used for an oh-so-convenient MF switch), and you will have to switch weapons every time you teleport. ANNNNNNNOYYYYYYING!!!

    FHR... Like I said, Max Block builds don't really need that, and considering your life amount, you will not really need FHR much at all. Unless you PvP, in which case your gear will be ripped apart by other players.

    FRW is, as you said, useless, as you should be teleporting around, not running around.

    Now, I will explain why I think the Max Vita is the way to go:

    [one_more_wall_o_text]

    You are a sorceress. A sorceress is a ranged attacker with many powerful AoE massively-damaging spells, like Fireball, Meteor, Frozen Orb (all used in this build), and with LOTS of crowd control, because she can fire cold spells at her will and chill/slow/freeze enemies without much trouble.

    Therefore, a sorceress rarely ever gets hit by melee attackers: if they run up close, you just cast an FO and teleport away with your superior 105% FCR (most monsters can't finish the swinging animation at that speed), and attack them from range.

    Now there are 2 main threats: ranged physical attackers (Skeleton Archers and Spear Cats being the most dangerous ones), and casters (against which block does not help). Now, physical attacks from rangers are annoying as hell, and will bug you if you do not go the max-block route. However, I do not see how sacrificing FCR can compensate for safety against this relatively small niche of enemies (well, there are Dolls and Frenzytaurs, too, but those will rip you apart anyway, block or no block).

    Once again, I tell you: FCR is IMPORTANT for a Meteorb. It helps her survive (fast teleports are ESSENTIAL in areas like Worldstone Keep and Durance of Hate) and it lets her increase damage output dramatically (Spamming Fireballs like mad is my favorite way of having fun!).

    As you can easily guess the name "Meteorb" comes from combining Meteor and Frozen Orb together. However, unlike the name implies, Meteor is not the main fire skill you will be using. In 99.9% of cases, Fireball is superior in Damage per Time and in general control (Meteor Delay doesn't work well with Frozen Orb Delay, also, while you wait for the Meteor to drop, the enemies might escape from the landing site). Fireball is THE main fire skill for a Meteorb. In fact, it is my opinion this build be renamed to FireOrb or FrozenBall(s) (Ouch!).

    In short, Block is not that important for a Sorceress (Unless you play Hardcore, but that's a different case alltogether), because she won't be blockin' much at all.

    [/one_more_wall_o_text]

    Allright, that's it, I will not make any more arguments. I just think you focus too much on survivability, and sacrifice kill power for that (+skills is not everything). What good is an immortal character if it can't kill stuff? No thanks.

    *I has let out my steam*

    [EDIT]: All my typing is in vain, since I have been PWNED rough by UberB's laconic and nice-to-read post... :badteeth:
     
  7. prion

    prion IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    shallowprofile, you may be laboring under a misconception, the -25% fire res mod only applies to the weilder, so it will only affect your merc, not your spells

    ahhh i got pwned..
     
  8. uptoolayte

    uptoolayte IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    I agree with Berg. Sorcs don't need block or DR because sorcs don't get hit unless you have slow FCR. You need the Vitality to survive magic attacks more than you need block to survive Melee attacks. I don't know how anyone is running out of mana with these sorcs, even without BO I NEVER run out of mana and I spam tele/FB everywhere. Infinity is the way to go on your merc I think.
     
  9. Noite Escura

    Noite Escura IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    That is personal preference actually. I had both max block and vita/Spirit sorcs last ladder and both work fine actually. I still prefer block though due to a single factor: lag. I had once a sorc to be able to survive around 5 secs in the middle of a pack of Frenzytaurs, which shows clearly how block benefits you. I would NEVER make a non-block sorc without Spirit though.
     
  10. Dodgydave

    Dodgydave IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    Get a least 105% FCR now....

    Full Tals, Magefist and Spirit would be the cheapest way to go.

    Some other options.

    Occy, Arachnid Mesh, Magefist, Spirit would work too if you don't want to go Tals.

    If you don't want spirit.

    HOTO, Mesh, Magefist, 10%FCR ring and a 15%+FCR ammy would work too.

    I would suggest a Skin of the Vipermagi, but with your fascination for shiney runes I don't see it being taken seriously!
     
  11. Panix

    Panix IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    Even if you don't want to use full tals, 3 piece tals would be good. The meteorb I made when I started back uses shako, maras, tal armor, occy, spirit, chance guards, tal belt, dual nagel and war travs. I keep an ali baba+rhyme for switch. She doesn't do insane damage but it wasn't the point. She got to meph and killed good enough for me. I went max vit, had maxed resists so I even went as far as to socket my tal armor and shako with ptopaz. *shrugs*

    Hell, the stat list you gave looks fine unless you're wanting perfection (which is my guess). If you're wanting to use all that expensive stuff though, a hammerdin would be better suited.
     
  12. ihuang

    ihuang IncGamers Member

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    Re: I have a plan for my new sorc... But I need your help... Please look...

    I also prefer max vita because like Berg said, the only real threats to you while not teleporting across a map are ranged attackers. Some ranged attackers used physical attacks, while some use elemental (like gloams and burning souls). With 1k or more life, maxed resists, Glacial Spike, and Frozen Orb, Gloams and Burning Souls aren't much of a threat, unless you're facing 15 of them along with some soul killers and blood lords. Same with most elemental attackers, especially unblockable elemental attacks.

    And yeah, with the kind of gear you have, you should definitely consider making a hammerdin. You already have Enigma, Shako, and Maras.

    Something I find really helpful with a Meteorb, especially those with large +skills, that I haven't found on many guides or posts is spamming glacial spike in between frozen orbs on fire immunes or dangerous monsters that can be frozen. Even though FO's delay is not long, Glacial Spike freezes monsters, whereas FO only chills them.
     

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