I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

[Funkopotamus]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Good call Funkopotamus. But believe it or not, it was said. I seem to recall the issue was with talent trees, some of the game panes, item rarities system and with expansion packs, the socketed items and even sets.

But there was a lot more going on at the time. Those complaints are just a portion of what I remember. There was also a lot of graphics whining going on too. But I can't recall the details anymore so I'm leaving that out, least I say something wrong.

Oh, functionally, yeah, it's very similar to D2. Graphically, I don't get it.

 

[stillman]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

^Funk, after reading some of your posts on other threads, I can't help but think you will never like the way d3's mood/atmosphere/look/etc is unless you make the game yourself exactly to your prefered specifications. I believe this is so for many of you other posters too. You all just won't be happy until it looks almost the same as d1 or however EXACTLY you each happen to want it.

Can't everyone just....roll with the punches? Blizzard has to take a sort of average of what they think the fans want. They can't just isolate the d1 fans and say, "Yeah, make it for all those d1 fans!". They've got too many people to please, so why do you all expect perfection from Blizzard?

 

[Sid]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I will try out the game (there will probably be a demo) before I buy it. If I don't like it, I won't buy it. Simple as that really. I am not the type of person to cry and whine endlessly on a forum because a video game is not exactly as I like it. Just seems like a waste of time and energy, and something only childish people would do (or people who are, in fact, children).

 

[JonathanNathan]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

*yawn* Your rhetoric doesn't impress me. I told you this before.
You need to try harder... and you'll still fail. :yes:

You're not even responding congruously anymore. The situation remains that you have taken my statements about a product as if they were personal attacks upon you. And that's just too bad.

Your attitude here has been revealing from day 0.

I'd think you brighter than that. Not anymore. You are funny now.

My attitude was so revealing...that you didn't...that you thought one thing but...now you think something...you know, you just don't make any sense.

You choose to use these forums to vent all that anger inside you, knowing that those that could actually do something about all your complaints wouldn't even look your way were you to come to them with your weak (read, non existing) arguments.

I think I've been fairly clear about my awareness that companies do not give a flying **** about consumers and consumer input, and that Blizzard is no exception. It's not like I'm under some illusion that if only I could talk to the development team, all would be different. Companies make products the way they want to make them, because they know people will buy them unthinkingly.

I notice that you frequently seem to set yourself up, perhaps subconsciously, as one of the developers. You talk in these very long-winded posts about all the twists and turns of creating a game. You rhetorically equate yourself with the company by portraying them as having the same disdain for me (as a person) that you have.

You still haven't differentiated how all that you question about them is not questioning their competence as Diablo III designers.

It's questioning their competence as Diablo III designers, but not as game developers or creators of product. They're clearly quite good at that. They're creating a product that is almost certainly going to do very well critically and commercially. It's just a shame that it isn't a Diablo game.

"Their ability to agree with you"? As much as I can dig someone's sense of self-worth, you are most definitely NOT the end-all-be-all of everything Diablo unless you have something to prove that you are.

Self-deprecating humor is lost on you people.

But D2 wasn't a constant horror fest either. It had plenty of well lit, grassy green, sun burnt, lush forest, bright snow areas.

Really the only one that I felt wasn't very tonally dark was the desert. The jungle was very claustrophobic and dense. The grassy areas were dead and lifeless, like a winter without snow. The mountainous regions were a war zone. And, as I mentioned earlier, the desert was engulfed in literal darkness for about half of Act 2.

Which "classic element" of D2 did they take out?

Off the top of my head: potions. I'm not saying weird globules of health that materialize out of thin air don't fit with the realistic tone of the series, but I think potions were better. They were a part of the gameplay. You balanced your attention on combat and on skill setup with your attention to health and mana maintenance. And now they're dumbing it down so you don't have to divide your attention. Because thinking about multiple tasks is just too hard.

The devs may not have come out and said it

That makes a huge difference. When you're coming out and saying, "Yeah, most of the changes we're making, we're taking from WoW in some form," it reflects a certain pervasiveness of the attitude. When you're not coming out and saying it, it reflects a much more muted degree of borrowing. The way that people speak and communicate speaks incredible volumes about who and what they are. For example, I don't really care for "netiquette," and that shows in the way I communicate here.

Way ahead of you, ouroboros.

When Ouroboros tells me to get the **** out of the forum, then you can pretend to share the moral high ground with him. Until then, your attempt to equate yourself with him does not fly.

 

[JonathanNathan]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Rational people like Krugar, Grug, and others who are posting here .. reconsider please.

Oh, I don't think that's very fair. You should see some of the stuff they say. It's downright vile.

Whatever, I bet Jonathan Nathan will have fun multi-quoting my post, but its truly not directed at him.

I don't know why Jonathan feels the need to be so aggresive and combative.

you're just aggravating and provoking people

Its just one guy who revels in verbal combat, nothing else.

The legit points he brings up can be discussed in a civil way with other people

someone who feels it necessary to snark in a personal attack in between every other good point he makes.

the other guy is obviously too in love with himself to quit.

How 'bout that, sports fans?

 

[Syko]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I just registered on these forums the other day and even though I've been reading through the threads for quite some time before I registered I still have seen no real relation between D3 and WOW.

Why is it like WOW?
Because it has a hot bar? Because the characters are wearing shoulder armor? Because There are purple item drops? Because it is in 3D? Because it his a different color/art design of the previous games?

None of these things were invented by World of Warcraft, so why does another game having the features mean that it is the same thing?

Please, someone point me to the thread that has all the definitive evidence that D3 is stealing ideas from WOW so I can finally understand it.

 

[Grug]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

You're not even responding congruously anymore. The situation remains that you have taken my statements about a product as if they were personal attacks upon you. And that's just too bad.

My attitude was so revealing...that you didn't...that you thought one thing but...now you think something...you know, you just don't make any sense.

I think I've been fairly clear about my awareness that companies do not give a flying **** about consumers and consumer input, and that Blizzard is no exception. It's not like I'm under some illusion that if only I could talk to the development team, all would be different. Companies make products the way they want to make them, because they know people will buy them unthinkingly.

Lol Paranoid much?

 

[Krugar]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I notice that you frequently seem to set yourself up, perhaps subconsciously, as one of the developers. You talk in these very long-winded posts about all the twists and turns of creating a game.

*hint*

(and no. I'm not a Blizzard developer.)

 

[Kaeros]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I think, Jonathan, that you're convinced that all the core elements of Diablo I and Diablo II that worked ten years ago are going to work today. Ten years ago, both games were pioneers of their time -- there really wasn't anything else like them, except the dozens of games that followed and tried to emulate them. Unfortunately, all those games were a bit of a flop, since time and technology kept moving forward and they did not.

A lot of people, including Blizzard, realize -- or at least believe -- that the DI and DII models are, at this time, rather archaic. In hindsight there are a lot of things that didn't work very well and that could have been implemented better. For example: The Tetris-grid, the shrines (most of which were useless), the two skill-buttons and the myriad of vague skill icons, the mindless loot lottery that boss runs became, 100% immunities that brought entire builds to their knees, the "open and close the window 1000 times" gambling interface, one-shot-kills as the only measure of difficulty, potion-spamming, the Hostile button, chat-room trade spamming, etc. They were fun in their time but flawed, and it would be inexcusable to bring all those things back ten years later solely because it's "in the spirit of tradition."

DIII is an attempt to move forward with many of those things, and I'd have to disagree with you that the announced changes so far even come close to touching the core of what a Diablo game is. I'd urge you to hold back your nerd-rage and trolling until you have a better picture of what DIII has in store for us. They have a huge, well-financed team behind the game, and I can guarantee you that they are as passionate about the game -- if not moreso -- than yourself. The fact that they have borrowed some interface ideas from WoW does not destroy the integrity of Diablo, and I won't even go into the absurdity of judging lighting, model quality, and textures from a pre-alpha build of a game. If you're going to do that, I insist that you Google "alpha Starcraft screenshots" and get back to me.

Take a look at Warcraft III, and then ask yourself if you would have preferred that they keep the same mechanics and art design from Warcraft I or II. They're vastly different games that are still 'Warcraft', but an obvious progression has been made. Why do you think DIII is going to be any different?

 

[Doctor Salvador]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Off the top of my head: potions. I'm not saying weird globules of health that materialize out of thin air don't fit with the realistic tone of the series, but I think potions were better. They were a part of the gameplay. You balanced your attention on combat and on skill setup with your attention to health and mana maintenance. And now they're dumbing it down so you don't have to divide your attention. Because thinking about multiple tasks is just too hard.

You may or may not know this, but potions have not been taken out of the game. This has been a point of confusion for a lot of people ever since the globes have been anounced. Potions will apparently have some sort of cool down, and are supposed to become fairly rare, in order to get rid of the popular (Popular's not even the word, if you didn't potion spam, you were dumb) potion spamming technique. There are plenty of arguments about why we should or should not get rid of potion spamming, but that's for another thread.

And about the whole realism thing of health/mana globes. There's nothing to worry about there, considering all Blizz has to do is make up a tiny bit of lore or make a change to the appearance of globes. But I can see your worry, 'cause obviously a lot of people kinda dislike the whole 'feel' of the globes versus pots.

 

[AxlStrife]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

It's questioning their competence as Diablo III designers, but not as game developers or creators of product. They're clearly quite good at that. They're creating a product that is almost certainly going to do very well critically and commercially. It's just a shame that it isn't a Diablo game.

Do you realize where this discussion is happening, by chance? This is an on-topic thread about Diablo 3. We were never discussing the designer's competence on any off-topic issues: solely Diablo 3. Thank you for your admittance that you are questioning their competence, even though post 41 in this very thread has you stating otherwise.

Opinions are like ***holes: everyone has one and most people don't take them seriously. We get that you don't like the game and that you don't think it's Diablo but you are not the authority on Diablo. All of the themes and settings of Sanctuary, the Burning Hells, and the High Heavens are in the game. Thus, the game IS Diablo.

 

[akboy]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Really the only one that I felt wasn't very tonally dark was the desert. The jungle was very claustrophobic and dense. The grassy areas were dead and lifeless, like a winter without snow. The mountainous regions were a war zone. And, as I mentioned earlier, the desert was engulfed in literal darkness for about half of Act 2.

Dead, lifeless grass isn't green, it's brown. So the D2 grassy areas couldn't possibly have been dead and lifeless. Yes, act 5 was tonally dark, but that's act 5. We haven't even seen the second act in D3, so you have no way of knowing how much darker it will get.

Off the top of my head: potions. I'm not saying weird globules of health that materialize out of thin air don't fit with the realistic tone of the series, but I think potions were better. They were a part of the gameplay. You balanced your attention on combat and on skill setup with your attention to health and mana maintenance. And now they're dumbing it down so you don't have to divide your attention. Because thinking about multiple tasks is just too hard.

Actually, Blizzard has said they are changing the potion system because it was too easy. You could stockpile rejuv potions and just use one whenever you got hurt. Plus, if you had a tank merc, you could just pump you potions into him and the monsters would never touch you. The new system will be harder and more realistic because you won't be able to carry around gallons of instant heal potions.

That makes a huge difference. When you're coming out and saying, "Yeah, most of the changes we're making, we're taking from WoW in some form," it reflects a certain pervasiveness of the attitude. When you're not coming out and saying it, it reflects a much more muted degree of borrowing. The way that people speak and communicate speaks incredible volumes about who and what they are. For example, I don't really care for "netiquette," and that shows in the way I communicate here.

They never said most of the changes are from WoW. The new rune system is the biggest change, and that's not from WoW.

So you want Blizzard to ignore our questions? You don't even want them to answer us when we ask them why they do something?

I don't buy the claim that coming out and saying they were inspired by WoW for some elements makes it worse. The game will be the same regardless of what they say or don't say.

Besides, your original complaint wasn't about what Blizzard was saying. You were complaining about the actual changes in the game. Yet Warcraft 3 was a much more drastic change from WC2 than D3 is from D2. If it's so important for a game series to stay true to every major element of its gameplay, than WC3 should have sucked because it changed a lot. Yet it didn't suck, so making changes to a series can be a good thing.

 

[Turnip]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

haha warcraft 3 didnt suck? I guess if you count Dota your right it doesnt suck.

 

[Akimbo]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Why do I keep seeing the word "realistic" in D3 threads?

 

[Daedrith]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Why do I keep seeing the word "realistic" in D3 threads?

You mean to say you don't have a demon-infested labyrinth in your back yard? :devil: :shhh:

 

[mgoose]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I didn't read the whole thread, but I really feel like adding my $.02 to this topic.

I played D2 for about 5 years, and WoW for about 3 months. My intial impressions based on screen shot etc is that the graphics look much more WoW-esque and a lot less like D2 and I'm, clearly, not liking it. Even how the hotkey skill-set buttons look, the texture of the characters, etc.

I'm sure people are bored of this, but since I haven't really been around this discussion I wanted to get my say in.

 

[Jimbob]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I'm sure Diablo 3 will have that dark feel to it by the time it comes out. They still have a lot of more work to put into it. It's too early to judge this game; I already made that mistake. Blizzard makes great games and if they aren't turning out great than they cancel them or put them on hold, so, so far this game is looking great according to them.

The shoulder pads are kind of lame though. I mean seriously, what fantasy game uses shoulder pads. Change it to shoulder armor, dang it! I just hope they change it.

By the way, you weren't one of those guys who signed that petition in blood, were you? Seriously people, in blood. Crazy!

 

[Dahmer]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I didn't read the whole thread, but I really feel like adding my $.02 to this topic.

I played D2 for about 5 years, and WoW for about 3 months. My intial impressions based on screen shot etc is that the graphics look much more WoW-esque and a lot less like D2 and I'm, clearly, not liking it. Even how the hotkey skill-set buttons look, the texture of the characters, etc.

I'm sure people are bored of this, but since I haven't really been around this discussion I wanted to get my say in.

Thanks for digging up and adding your two cents in a thread that should've died and been closed 2 months ago.

 

[konnu]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Many things developers are bringing from WOW are welcome and good.

Some of these WOW features aren't that good... most of these wont ruin the game or make very little difference. here are my opinions with slight exaggeration and speculation.

1. autostats
2. because it takes diversity from the game and simplifies it too much
3. designing your charracter is one of the funniest things to do. If you mess up with the stats, you could alter them with respec??

1. respecs and dualspecs
2. i think WOW had this feature first. not sure. It's a huge relief tho and i'm quite sure everyone welcomes this cookie(or a whole cake with a cigar) with open arms and praises.
2. it's just unrealistic and lowers the age of the game. Respeccing could be done bit more realistic way by allowing players to respec one or few skill points per day. so a total respec would take, say, a week? Would be like learning new things and forgetting old

1. skill cooldowns
2. a plague in WOW. you needed adons to manage the cooldowns
3. you need to pay attention to numbers instead of the game. It's also unrealistic to being able to for example kick someone only every 10sec for some odd reason. Your leg just wont raise because of cooldown but you can run hehe. In seriousness, 1 cooldown is on but having to watch 3 or more decading values in addition to hp and mana is just too much. Replace cooldown with the kind of system new fury mechanic has. traffic lights

1. gear will look like it came from space aliens
2. WOWdesigners tried really hard to make people JAWS drop when they saw the sets. They did very good job but they forgot to keep the look faithful to medieval, troll, orc and elve worlds.
3. It takes away from the gothic-medieval-historical-semirealistic theme. Look at Diablo 2 gear, the helmets and armor are all realistic looking medieval leather or metal. Allmost none of the items have massive uncomfortable looking shoulderpads that stick through chartacter head if he moves wrong. First D3 set has those WOW JAWDROPPING shoulderpads and helmet made of some huge skull(eventho D2 has it too... but i'm pretty sure thre will be even more imaginary helmets). Weapon is a flamy torch... why would you use a torch instead of a spiky mace or sharp sword? I just hope the designers find a way making items drop people jaws without making them look like from Warhammer 4000.

slight speculation
1. too powerful gear sets (oh ye, i'm talking about sets again)
2. because it takes diversity from the game and makes everyone look the same, have same stats... simplifies the game, homogenises characters
3. diversity is good. "forcing" everyone use the same, the best, endgame set takes away from game diversity and your pleasure of designing your own unique character, looking unique

even more speculation
1. pvp is one big boring grind, no risk, meaningless 'deaths', respawn after respawn
2. in WOW battlegrounds are often just boring grind for the pvp set. pvp is not exciting because you have no reason to fear death
3. If death has no penalty, there is no excitement or fear of death. PVP just for the rewards is just pve with improved enemy AI.

massive speculation
1. quests, quests and, guess what, even more quests. quests givers on the left, quest givers right, quest...
2. WOW even made questing into a profession with the daily quests.
3. I find quests just tedious work and grind. Games with real sandboxes give players something to do without telling them to do things just because. Fallout 3 had nice random events when you just ran around in the desers exploring the world. I enjoyed that, hope to see that in D3 too. Manufacturing in other games and horadric cube (and runes) to an extent in D2 gave players reason to grind.

I'm sure i could think more but is anyone even going to read these?? :coffee:

 

[wishforskillz]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

You mean to say you don't have a demon-infested labyrinth in your back yard? :devil: :shhh:

No I actually have a WP to the River of Flames. My next door neighbor and I farm the chaos sanc for those 1337 uniques.

But no demon infest labyrinth.