I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

[Demetrium]

I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Comparisons between D3 and WoW seem to get thrown around rather carelessly in almost every thread. Its a practice I've found rather frustrating, especially as someone who played both WoW and Diablo for at least a good 3-4 years. I know WoW inside and out and have a particularly strong gaming background. If you're looking for credentials I was in one of the top guilds in WoW (Ascent) and gladiator in more than one season. Enough ego inflation...to the topic at hand.

In order for this thread to be useful, there needs to be a three step process when posting your opinion. Feel free to add more, but in order to be constructive, you must fulfill the three below obligations with some thought/effort put into them as well. You can post more than one reason, but must justify the reason with the below three steps separately.



1. State an individual reason why you think D3 is too much like WoW.
EX: I think that D3 is too much like WoW because of the way the graphics look. The art is similar, and much of the equipment has the characteristics of something taken from WoW. For example, WoW had weapon enchantments and D3's effects on the weapons is very similar to how it was done with WoW. WoW also emphasised shoulder-item graphics, and in the D3 gameplay video you can see the shoulder armor is somewhat exaggerated. Overall, the graphics have the "cartoony" feel that WoW uses.

2. State why this above reason is WoW-centric.
EX: I've played many RPGS and WoW has its own particular graphics style in which D3 seems to be following suit. I'm unsure if it was the first to do enchantments in the above manner, but they're the first game to put such a giant emphasis on shoulder and helm items compared to the rest of your armor. Overall, the graphics resemble WoW much more than any other game I can think of.

3. State why this is a bad thing, and how D2 was different. Important!
EX: I don't like the game's graphical direction and art style because I feel it loses the atmosphere that the previous games had. The Diablo franchise used to have it's own look and feel, and now the game just doesn't stand out anymore. In my opinion if you take D1, D2, and D3 and put them side by side, you can see that D2 came from D1, but not that D3 came from D2. Above I had mentioned that it looks "cartoony" like WoW, and this is a graphics style that I don't particularly like.



Ultimately the goal of this thread is to:
a) Have a consolidated space to put your concerns that D3 and WoW are too similar.
b) Prove that in many cases, WoW's features are good features, and also did not debut with WoW's release or updates.

Try to read through the posts in this thread and avoid duplicates. If you agree with someone, feel free to refer to them or quote them and say so. I'm really hoping that I don't see 50 comments about the graphics though. Try to post legitimate concerns that you feel will have a significant averse affect on D3.

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I feel like this thread is too much like 900 other threads out there

 

[Demetrium]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I feel like this thread is too much like 900 other threads out there

......but did you read it?
1 is better than 900.

Ultimately the goal of this thread is to:
a) Have a consolidated space to put your concerns that D3 and WoW are too similar.
b) Prove that in many cases, WoW's features are good features, and also did not debut with WoW's release or updates.

 

[raveharu]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Yaya Blizzard knows, look at all 9874653 SIMILAR threads in their official forums.
And here is their reply.

Instead of deleting this thread for giving me a headache, I'll ask a question.

Should something be different for the sake of being different?

The point of that question is, I will provide you with logical and rational reasoning all day long for why certain choices were made to change game mechanics and systems, but if all I hear in return is "WoW had it" then you don't have an argument. Your voice is lost on me. It's lost in, what I assume is an attempt to influence the direction of the game. It isn't a valid reason for anything, no matter how much you may want it to be.

Should something be different for the sake of being different?

I think that's a good idea, it's a little too muddled for it's own good at this point. Replying to it in the first place was a mistake. I apologize.

But I'll end it on this note...

When I started at Blizzard I could only dream that someone somewhere in the company was even working on a Diablo III, let alone be as close to the project as I am now. We're all here because we're excited about the game. You're all here because you share in that excitement. We all want to be a part of it. Whether that means you're here to just talk about it, point out what you don't like, be an unabashed fanboy, or maybe just lurk and read, we're all here because we love the series, and we want to play a sequel that appeals to us. We all have our own ideas and opinions, but we all need to be open to discussion and celebration of the game.

Let's all just keep that in mind as we're replying to each other.

Otherwise, I'm more than happy to read your thoughts and opinions and relay what I can. Hang out here and chat about the game, etc. I only ask that you approach everything with a rational sense of curiosity and desire to learn more.

/thread close please.

And no, D3 does not look like WoW.

 

[stillman]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

There should be another option in the poll: "I'm 5 and when your 5, everything looks a little cartoony."

In all serious though,

1. D3 is almost nothing at all like WoW. So far the only slight resemblances are the shoulder pads and the skill trees. But I'm sure there's more to the game than those 2 things. For example: if there are 12 item slots on the body, then the shoulder pads are already less than 10% of the gear we'll see.

2. Don't know why big shoulder plates are WoW-centric. Maybe they want the chrs to look macho and and football player-like. Maybe the next classes like archer won't have to look as macho. Afterall, the WD doesn't have giant shouder pads.

3. Giant shoulder pads are a bad thing because they visually take over the whole chr's and give them a modern or futuristic look like football players or sci-fi robots respecively. They also lessen immersiveness because we know a barb can't funtion and maintain his flexible moves with these obstructions.

But again, it's just one or two things. Furthermore, WoW really is a cartoon or children's coloring book game, whereas d3 is a painting or a movie game. The similarities are really quite minor.

 

[Demetrium]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I'm just hoping everyone understands the examples in my opening post aren't my opinion...because I couldn't be more on the other side of the fence. I just took a popular argument I've seen before in countless threads to make an example.

If you've seen any of my posts before you would know that I really don't have any gripes about D3, and I actually quite aggressively defend the game on these forums. It ticks me off when people post this unsubstantiated gripes with zero insight.

The idea of this thread was that if anyone had any opinions they could voice them out here as opposed to spraying them in every thread, whether it be about the skill trees, the graphics, the item colors...etc.

Its been almost a day and nobody has made any attempt at posting something, defending the logic behind their gripe. I guess that says much about the target audience of the thread, and why they piss me off so badly?

 

[Grug]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

No one is posting because your target audience of WoW haters would rather make their own threads, and the rest of us won't post because it's inherently biased. The title is "I feel D3 is too much like WoW because..." Except I DON'T feel D3 is too much like WoW. Hence I have nothing to say.

 

[AxlStrife]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

I admire the effort, as you've been speaking of it for some time. I hope it catches on, but sadly I doubt it will. Like you, I feel that the fuss is unfounded and it ignores multiple other instances in the game.

I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of having another example.

1) "I" think D3 is too close to WoW partly because of auto-stats. As Blizzard, and not Blizzard North for obvious reasons, is working on Diablo III, it is no wonder why they would go with a system they have worked with before. Unfortunately, this system seems like more of a copy-paste of how WoW approached stats, outside of items.

2) Auto-stats are viewed as WoW-centric for a few reasons. One reason is simply due to the fact that most of the people working on DIII worked on WoW. Also, considering how wildly successful WoW was, it might be seen as "taking the easy route" instead of challenging themselves, as far as the stats goes. Finally, auto-stats feel like a plea to a differnt target audience ('tween+) than the previous Diablos (18+), basically watering down the gameplay.

3) This change is bad for Diablo III as it takes away from the nostalgia of the previous titles and it reduces the amount of customization of stats, which will have more of an impact on a character than the stats on D2. D2 is different because theoretically you have complete control over your stats with manual stats, thus adding a higher leaning curve for new players.

Sorry if it completely sucks.

 

[Phranx]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Sadly I don't think any of the WoW haters will post here because you have scared them off with the use of logic.

I've personally killed plenty of threads as I am sure you have yourself just by explaining the opposite point of view to these people through clear, concise, logical explanations to which they have no response.

I applaud you for calling them out and would honestly appreciate anyone to post in this thread some reasoning why they “don’t like the art design” or they “don’t like the skill tree”, etc.

For example, the art direction. I can undoubtedly tell that this game was made by Blizzard just by looking at a screenshot. It’s not because the graphics “Look like WoW” or the characters are “too unrealistic”, it’s because Blizzard have their own style (and I expect is for good reason) and a very high standard of perfection.
The only comparisons I can honestly come up with are:

The graphics are not realistic. – Neither are so, so many other games. If you look back on all of Blizzards games when they come out (using today’s standards would be biased) they didn’t look realistic either. They are also on different levels of "unrealistic", WoW is a cartoon and Diablo 3 is... well, just that. Something I would expect from a Diablo game in a 3D engine.

The models look like they might be low poly. – This comparison was scraping the bottom of the barrel. I can’t even tell you if either game uses low poly models or not because I’m not an expert.
If they are low poly I would say it’s simply so people with lower end systems can still play the game.

 

[JonathanNathan]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

1. State an individual reason why you think D3 is too much like WoW.

1) Inventory revamp. One slot-per-item.

2. State why this above reason is WoW-centric.

1)This is not a Diablo concept. Doesn't fit with anything Diablo games have ever been about. It is, however, something that appears in WoW. Therefore, it is a fairly reasonable assumption to say that this came from WoW. It may have appeared in other games, but Blizzard is using it because it worked in WoW. They have frequently made clear that they are taking "well-learned lessons" from WoW, and applying them to D3.

3. State why this is a bad thing, and how D2 was different. Important!

1) It's not Diablo. Diablo has always been a game tinged with realism, although I prefer Garth Ennis' term, "believability." Diablo can never be "realistic," of course, but it can have an internal believability, a tangential relationship with realism. It has an internal physics, you might say. Part of that internal physics is that characters only have so much space in their packs, and items take up proportional amounts of space. It's ludicrous that a tiny gemstone takes up the same amount of space as a battleaxe. This feature encourages lazy, un-strategic players to keep being lazy and unstrategic. You don't have to make decisions about what to keep, because you've got unlimited inventory/stash space!

I have more, but I need to go drink some beer for a friend's birthday. Bella ciao.

 

[Krugar]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

They have frequently made clear that they are taking "well-learned lessons" from WoW, and applying them to D3.

So I guess all is said and done. Blizzard 1, You 0

 

[Demetrium]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

1) Inventory revamp. One slot-per-item.

1) It's not Diablo. Diablo has always been a game tinged with realism, although I prefer Garth Ennis' term, "believability." Diablo can never be "realistic," of course, but it can have an internal believability, a tangential relationship with realism. It has an internal physics, you might say. Part of that internal physics is that characters only have so much space in their packs, and items take up proportional amounts of space. It's ludicrous that a tiny gemstone takes up the same amount of space as a battleaxe. This feature encourages lazy, un-strategic players to keep being lazy and unstrategic. You don't have to make decisions about what to keep, because you've got unlimited inventory/stash space!

While I find myself neutral about this change, I certainly see the angle you're coming from and can appreciate the argument you make.

If more people would post their opinions like this the forums would be far less frustrating and much more enjoyable.

 

[Grug]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

It's ludicrous that a tiny gemstone takes up the same amount of space as a battleaxe. This feature encourages lazy, un-strategic players to keep being lazy and unstrategic. You don't have to make decisions about what to keep, because you've got unlimited inventory/stash space!

Among other things I could say about your post, gems don't take up the same amount of space as battleaxes any more. Go look at Blizzcast Eight.

 

[JonathanNathan]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

So I guess all is said and done. Blizzard 1, You 0

Oh my gosh! I feel so, uhm, "powned," is that what the kids are saying these days?

You know, you and yours are far more repetitive than those of us voicing complaints. I can project what you're going to say to me well before you say it.

"You know, maybe Diablo III would look better if--" "**** YOU SHUT UP YR STUPID DUMB ASSHOLE I HATE YOU WHY DO YOU HATE FUN YR REPETITIVE GOWAY"

 

[JonathanNathan]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

While I find myself neutral about this change, I certainly see the angle you're coming from and can appreciate the argument you make.

It will be a lot easier on me as a player, so from that perspective, it's awesome and it's what part of me always wanted as a D2 player. But from the perspective of someone viewing the game as a real work of art and a companion piece to Diablo and Diablo II, it just doesn't seem consistent. It doesn't feel correct.

 

[JonathanNathan]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Among other things I could say about your post, gems don't take up the same amount of space as battleaxes any more. Go look at Blizzcast Eight.

Wow. It really is like Jay Wilson wants to make this game as un-Diablo as possible.

"But for the most part, the pure mechanic of shrines, a random powerup that just appears in the world for no reason, we don’t really want to litteraly bring that back."

When he says things like "That's not very Diablo," even when he's right, it just rings hollow. This guy understands Diablo the way I understand quantum physics.

"crits and monsters could explode across the screen"--Oh, that won't get old at all. I won't get tired of that inside ten minutes, no sir.

"We can just clobber the screen with so many effects that you just can’t see the game anymore."--I'm glad that didn't get in the way of "monsters exploding across the screen." It would be a real tragedy to lose out on monsters exploding across the screen.

"While it was more efficient to go with a WoW style one size fits all icon, which is what most people have seen, we really wanted to see what we could do and so we went back and reevaluated the system and we’ve decided split it into large and small objects. That brings up the question of tetris inventory all over again, and a lot of people are opposed to that, some people like it, some people don’t. So what we did we ended up tabbing the inventory, so now you have your large items, and then you have a tab for small items, and there’s a third tab for quest items."--Oh well. It's better than what it was. Still seems like it gives you way too much inventory space, but at least it's not completely insane...

"Current design right now is to have bags. You’ll get bags and they will expand, you know kind of like in WoW, except you’re not going to open up separate windows. You’ll start off your inventory with say… you know, eight slots, right, and then you’ll get a new bag and that has ten"--Oh wait, yeah, it is completely insane. Attaway, guys. I'd hate for this game to be remotely a Diablo game.

"Yeah, most people seem to really like it. I mean the feedback has been pretty good, personally I love it, because it lets you do both, it lets you have the large icons but it eliminates the frustration that people voiced about having different sized items within your inventory."--So they listen to fans who ***** about having to, like, think and make hard decisions about inventory and stuff, because, you know, intellect FTL, but they won't listen to fans that have the complaints that I have? I wish I was enough of a tinfoil-hat paranoiac to believe they were doing this specifically to me.

"I am unabashedly a fan of WoW, I’ll probably catch flak “oh you’re making it look like WoW oh no!†but I love them, I love the WoW icons. And y’know what we’re trying to do is see, ok what works about the WoW icons?"--Yay for ripping off anything that sells well. I fully expect to see Zerglings and maybe a Gear or two in this game, since, you know, those games sold well, and things "worked" in those games, so they must "work" in this game too! Somebody make sure they put Batman in D3, because he sells pretty well too.

"if they’re too colorful – tone it down."--From the guy who is unabashedly a fan of WoW, and makes fun of fans who have a problem with that? Riiiiiight.

"I think, very late in the game, not three weeks before we were scheduled to be done with that we got some concept that looked like he was being beamed in Star Trek style. My department did an emergency powwow and we weren’t really happy with that"--Wait, but guys being beamed in "works" in Star Trek! So why wouldn't it work in Diablo III? Remember? Everything that works in one thing will always work in every other thing, no matter how disparate and different the two things are!

Oh, and it's totally still one-slot-per-item. It's just that some slots are bigger.

So far the only change I've seen anyone talk about that actually feels like a genuine evolution of the Diablo concept is the Barb's Fury system. That feels, to me, the way that the Necromancer felt when D2 dropped, and the Assassin and Druid felt when LoD dropped. Concepts that are clearly entrenched within the Diablo tradition, but also take the gameplay into a new direction that works very well.

 

[korialstraz]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

@JonathanNathan: Multi-Quote ftw!

Or perhaps we just want some +1? :whistling:

Just messing with you. And just for the sake of not being completely OT... I don't feel it's too much like WoW. In fact I'm pretty confident a lot of things will still change which will make it look more like a Diablo game. I'm also fairly sure I read somewhere that they took some stuff from WoW to use temporarily so they could start testing stuff.

 

[Keighvin]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Just a quick question, for something to be WoW-centric or whatever, shouldn't it exclusive, or at least fairly unique, to WoW? Because the one slot inventory is neither of those things. It's not even MMO exclusive. Or Blizzard exclusive. It is, in fact, almost a generic type of inventory.




And also, you have no problem with the Fury system, which is similar to the Rage system of, gasp, WoW but have expressed grave concerns about the generic inventory system?

 

[RGValdearg]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

JohnathanNathan's post is filled with sarcasm and empty logic. Sounds more like nerdrage than anything else. If you are going to waste an entire page's worth of text, can you at least put forth something interesting? Successful games will always have an influence on games that are in development. Thats just the way of things, and, considering that Wow and D3 are both being made by the same company, you would have to expect the previous to have some influence on the direction of the latter.

That being said. I think many of the influences that D3 takes from WoW are going to be positive. I like the way the new skill trees look, I like the 1 slot based inventory, (Sorry, but Tetris was totally Ghey) and I like, for the most part, the new art direction.

The only complaints I can make as of right now is that they could have made it a tad bit darker than it is, to keep with the old pattern, and that they don't make the game TOO cartoony. As it stands now, it's not too bad, but lets be careful not to shift it to the WoW Color Palette.

A note on the art direction complaint: If the music is good and keeps to the current Diablo themes, the "darkness" might still be there, overall, which would be perfect.

 

[Grug]

Re: I feel D3 is too much like WoW because...

Wow. It really is like Jay Wilson wants to make this game as un-Diablo as possible.

"But for the most part, the pure mechanic of shrines, a random powerup that just appears in the world for no reason, we don’t really want to litteraly bring that back."

When he says things like "That's not very Diablo," even when he's right, it just rings hollow. This guy understands Diablo the way I understand quantum physics... etc etc etc

After reading this endless piece of trash that you wrote, I'm convinced you are either a troll or a complete moron. Yes, you ARE crazy. You're crazy because you'd have to be crazy to see that Blizzard changed the inventory and some of the creators like WoW, and then assume they're money grubbing whores that would put Dora the Explorer in the game if it sold well. Get the **** off our board, wacko.