I don't understand this game!?!?!?!

DeathMaster

Diabloii.Net Member
this debate may help others.

@Rizzo: you have said almost everythign I wanted to say. Yah, skelly mages are useless, I only cast them for no good reason (for fun, since I have one point there as pre-req), they don't provide either protection or killing power. But they have one good use as NF pointed out - the cold mage is good for act boss, for the cold (slow) effect. NF suggest LR for use with CE on unbreakable PIs, I think you mis-read the point there.

@day: I played poor untwinked fishy, I Guardianed untwink fishy. he beat Normal/NM @P8 naked (okay, not full naked, he had belt, shoes; only didn't kill hell andy naked). even a poor fishy doesn't need mage, I never find any good use of them, apart the cold mage on boss.

The way mage serve this build is, pre-req and you can case few (with +skills) to slow boss down. extra points are better spent else where.
 

Day

Diabloii.Net Member
Sorry some confusion - the bit in quotes is from NF's guide not me.

I still say extra meat shields for hell Ancients is worthwhile:

Cold Mages are good.

Poison mages are also useful (stop monster heal).

They do help with physical immunes when you can't break them.

I don't think you need Mages to defeat the game untwinked - just that they can help, especially, less experienced players (in which cateogory I include myself). The SM was the second character I completed the game with and following NF's guide I didn't allocate the points as they were "useless". Eventually, I decided it was pointless having saved points and decided to point them into Mages. I found they helped me. I also think they fit the summoner theme.

I'd agree that they are not the most powerful of minions but it is all incremental damage - on top of the warrior and ce damage so its not "wasted". Also its another target whilst they are being killed the warriors are living longer. Another Target for a leaper rather than you etc.

Again where else would you put the points - NF had no real suggestions in his guide?

From what i can see mages are a love/hate thing. I wouldn't spend my first 20 points on them but I can't see a betterplace to put my last 20 points.

PS I do agree that Clay Golem is a star minion - I found that with plus skills a point only was adequate.
 

Day

Diabloii.Net Member
Ps one final thought at lower player settings the Mage damage is more meaningful - I don't play Hell at players 8!
 

Uzziah

Diabloii.Net Member
Good gosh guys the difference between overlord, fishymancer, skelemancer, and lord of the mages is not that big.

Many people play different versions of summoning necros, each has their strengths and weaknesses. I personally like having a few mages out behind my skeletons, others like to bone wall and mage attack over it, still others like to curse and attack with skeletons. It really is just a style issue, you can get the power you need without a lot of items for the summoning builds, each of them has their uses and they are all about style of game play.

Fishymancers are fast because they don't focus solely on summons, this gives the player something to do other than stand there. Thats why they are the preferred build.
 

JihadJesus

Diabloii.Net Member
Or, alternatively, you could be like me and build about 10 characters that suck horribly but help you get the feel of things, and then move onto to mor epowerful stuff and MF (beware it gets to be an addiction. I'll stop when I have a perfect crown of ages, i promise!)
 

Chimaira

Diabloii.Net Member
DeathMaster said:
Yah, skelly mages are useless, I only cast them for no good reason (for fun, since I have one point there as pre-req), they don't provide either protection or killing power.
I must say that I agree with Day...Skelly mages aren't useless. Sure I wouldn't put points into them for anything but the prerequisite, but having more skeletons around to attract the attention of stray monsters is never a bad thing. In many areas I sometimes get ambushed by monsters that suddenly appear in my rear, then it's nice to have a skeletal mage or two to engage them and keep me safe. In other areas they can be a nuiscance because they block your skellies path but then you can just unsummon them. Sure skellymancers can get by fine without them, but saying they are useless is too unnuanced in my opinion.
 

water_moon

Diabloii.Net Member
I agree w/ JJ. Try out a few things first. I personally like a barb for MF & GF, they get drouble drops, pleanty of potions to be kept alive and can do fine w/ only self found gear. (goltar did very well with one that could only use writ's leg, and I'm having a go at trying to beat that now.)
 

Liliel

Diabloii.Net Member
Blizzard/Firewall sorc with defiance merc (Normal act 2 defensive) can do the job. Skelemancers tend to be a bit boring IMO. Pure blizzard sorc is great for getting into NM and starting MF runs.
 

Llathias

Banned
tell me about it! we'll be good friends :) i died at least 30 times with my barb trying to kill Diablo (N). :mad:

i get next to him to deliver a few hits, but then he releases that PLoD, which kills me before i can move!

well, maybe clvl 26 was too low, and i should've had more than 7 fire res & 0 lightning res :eek:
 

DeathMaster

Diabloii.Net Member
Llathias said:
tell me about it! we'll be good friends :) i died at least 30 times with my barb trying to kill Diablo (N). :mad:

i get next to him to deliver a few hits, but then he releases that PLoD, which kills me before i can move!

well, maybe clvl 26 was too low, and i should've had more than 7 fire res & 0 lightning res :eek:
How did you get there? lvl26 to NM diablo? is that some kind of rush or something? It is impossible in SP, to do normal ancients, you need to be at least lvl20 ...
 

Toppo

Diabloii.Net Member
DeathMaster said:
How did you get there? lvl26 to NM diablo? is that some kind of rush or something? It is impossible in SP, to do normal ancients, you need to be at least lvl20 ...
N = Normal, NM = Nightmare :p
 

rubberband shooter

Diabloii.Net Member
Mages are not neccesary, but not usless either. The fire and lighting mages deals quite decent damage combined with lower resist that are comparable to skeleton warriors. The cold and poison are utility mages use for slowing and prevent regeneration. I also find that mages took down unbreakable physical immunes quite quickly.
 
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