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Hybrid trimentalist...

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by svinderling, May 5, 2008.

  1. svinderling

    svinderling IncGamers Member

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    Hybrid trimentalist...

    20 Cold Ball
    6 Cold Mastery
    14 Firewall
    6 Fire mastery
    20 Chain lightning
    10 lightning mastery

    = 76 points. + around 10-15 prereqs...

    I get so tired of not being able to kill some monsies.
    How do you think this would work?
     
  2. korialstraz

    korialstraz IncGamers Site Pal

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    I think perhaps a Nova/F.Orb/Fire Wall or Fire Ball would work. 20 to Nova and Light Mastery, 20 to Frozen Orb and 1 in Cold Mastery, Max either F.Ball or F.Wall and place rest of the points in Fire Mastery. Just remember to place points in all the 1 point wonders like tele and static.

    Never made a sorc like it, but based on the skills and how little they require to work at maximum efficiency, that seems like a solution that may work. I doubt it will be a fast killer with exception of perhaps nova against enemies that's not light immune, but that's with a merc using infinity.
     
  3. svinderling

    svinderling IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    You think Nova would be better than CL? Because of synergies?
     
  4. korialstraz

    korialstraz IncGamers Site Pal

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    It doesn't require any synergies apart from Light Mastery which isn't really a synergy. Any +skills or +Light will boost both Nova damage and increase LM which in return gives more damage to Nova.

    The reason I chose Frozen Orb is since it can perform well even without the 40% extra damage from maxed Ice Bolt (synergie). With a Infinity merc and 1 point in CM along with +skills will make sure almost every monster not cold immune ends up with -100 resistance.

    For fire both Fire Wall and Fire Ball are good damag spells without a strong investmen in synergies. Fire Ball may be a better choice since it's spammable and doesn't require the enemy to stand/walk in it like a Fire Wall do.

    Just without knowing your equipment, I'm going to run some tests on a skill calc and check some numbers here. Will include a list of equipment just to get some +skills. I will not include any skillers, but a sorc Torch will be figured in with this setup.

    Helm: Shako (or circlet with +sorc/all skills if you need fcr)
    Weaon: Spirit
    Shield: Spirit
    Amulet: Magical/rare with +sorc/all skills or a unique with +2 skills
    Armor: Vipermagi
    Gloves: Magefist
    Belt: Any you can get. Arach is optimal I think, but I'm not including it
    Rings: I will not include a SoJ, but having them will ofc make the numbers higher
    Boots: Treks or Waterwalks. Won't affect the +skills anyway

    Maxed Nova, Light Mastery, Fire Ball and Frozen Orb. 1 Point in Cold mastery, Fire Mastery, Teleport and Static.

    Nova damage: 1258 - 1680

    Frozen Orb damage (not figuring in the -80% cold resist from CM, and remember the dmg number is per shard released): 445 - 466

    Fire Ball/Wall: 1061 - 1162/5666 - 5718

    As you can see it's not great, But it can be improved. With a 10 fcr ring and 2x 25 fcr spirit you hit 110 fcr (unless my memory about how much fcr you get from those items are uncorrect you may correct me. I didn't look up the items). You can see Fire Wall dealing a lot more damage than Fire Bolt, but as I said it needs monster to stay in it for the damage to take effect. Imho (without having tried Fire Wall), Fire Ball is the skill to go with here, though if you don't mind having a merc to tank the enemies for Fire Wall to take effect that's the superiour skill.

    Now let's include some better equipment and look at the damage again.

    Helm: Shako (or circlet with +sorc/all skills if you need fcr)
    Weaon: HotO
    Shield: Spirit
    Amulet: Magical/rare with +sorc/all skills and fcr
    Armor: CoH
    Gloves: Magefist
    Belt: Arach is optimal here imo
    Rings: 1x SoJ and fcr ring

    Again if I have counted right and assuming a 25 fcr spirit you get exactly 105 fcr. This however requires a fcr amu instead. You can use a fcr ring for maras instead too ofc (+2 skills) or a 35 fcr spirit for both 2x soj and a maras. There are probably other combinations as well but you get the idea. For the damage numbers here I went with maras and 1x fcr ring. Torch and Anni included as well as 2x skillers of each element.
    Boots: Treks or Waterwalks. Won't affect the +skills anyway

    Nova: 1884 - 2460

    Frozen Orb: 552 - 577

    Fire Ball/Wall: 1706 - 1851/8783 - 8846

    With this setup I believe even stronger that Fire Ball is superiour mainly because it's spammable. So with this you get 2 spammable spells (Fire Ball and Nova) with Frozen Orb being timered. Of course if you use Fire Wall there is nothing wrong with first casint Fire Wall then using Nova as long as the enemy is not lightning immune. The build will be completed at 79 (IIRC) in both examples.

    The reason I choose Nova instead of CL is because I think I remember reading something about next delay on that skill, but mostly because of synergies and that Nova looks cooler :prop:

    I hope this helps and good luck if you ever decide to make a sorc like this :flowers:

    NOTE: I did not make a sorc like this so if its viable or not I don't know, but looking at the damage figures I'd say it is. Won't do well in larger games, but should be able to hold her own in lower player count games. And infinity sorc will really take care of a lot of light immunes, however I think Frozen Orb or Fire Ball/Wall can sometimes kill better because of the monsters light resist even after Conviction.
     
  5. svinderling

    svinderling IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    Thanks a lot!

    I think I'll try one of these..

    I'm much more interested in versatility than killing speed, so this'd suit me just fine.
     
  6. moranor

    moranor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    Report back on how it works out for you
     
  7. svinderling

    svinderling IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    Yeah, I will.

    I think I'm gonna try to make a super versatile sorc. I kinda like to play alone in games with 5-8 players so I guess that I'd need to be able to deal some damage. :laugh:
     
  8. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    If you feel like reading, search for threads started by EnerSense.

    He's built 5 different Tri-Elementalists and has revised his opinions along the way. You can pretty much use those threads as a de-facto build guide (although Korialstraz's post looks pretty much like a solid start too - from the little I read of it - though I personally prefer Firewall to Fireball).
     
  9. korialstraz

    korialstraz IncGamers Site Pal

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    I'm very much interested in how this go as well. Keep us updated on what skills you decide to use, how strong she is and problems you may encounter :laugh:

    sirpoopsalot: Imho F.Ball is a lot funnier to use than F.Wall which is also partly why I would use that over F.Wall. Not sure if you read what I wrote about those 2 skills, but I can quite it below in case you want to read it.

    I probably wrote a little about it other places as well, though that part describes my thoughts on those two skills :smiley:
     
  10. svinderling

    svinderling IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    I was thinking along these lines:

    If the monsies are cold immune then you have to kill them fast, because the cold immunity makes them unslowable, right? Unslowable monsies = dangerous monsies for a poor sorc.

    So that means I have to concentrate on fire- and lightningdamage. Perhaps even use alternative equipment depending on the monsters immunities.
     
  11. korialstraz

    korialstraz IncGamers Site Pal

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    Cold immunes can be slowed with holy freeze from a merc. But if you don't want to use a merc you are out of luck :tongue:

    Anyway in the above setup it is actually focused more on fire and light since cold only require you to max 1 skill :wink3:
     
  12. Noite Escura

    Noite Escura IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    They can be slowed by holy freeze but they can also be put into recovery animation if your spells do high enough damage. This limit is somewhat blurred but i like to aim for at least 2k damage for non-timered spells. That's why I would recommend concentrating more on one skill (besides Orb) than the other.



     
  13. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    Yep, I agree with your points (for the most part). Having tried them both, to me, the choice between Fireball and Firewall is very simply dictated by the number of skillpoints available to spend into the fire tree.

    - If I have less than 40 skillpoints, Firewall is just as fast as Fireball, and more powerful against bosses.
    - If it's more skillpoints available for fireskills than that, then Fireball is superior.

    So, in the case of a tri-ele, Firewall would likely be my first choice.



    That said, I agree with Noite Escura's point. You don't NEED a three element build, and you can get lots of power from focusing more on dual-tree build.

    It will be quite rare that you will encounter a monster that's immune to both of the two elements you've chosen, but when it happens, you can simply use Telekinesis to force him into hit recovery while your merc finishes him off. As a bonus, even though TK is a lightning-based spell, the hit-recovery portion of it still works against lightning immunes.


    Also, fyi, not all monsters are affected/slowed by a Holy Freeze. Baal isn't. Neither are Frenzytaurs... so, depending on where your sorc goes, there might be better choice (for example, I don't often use Holy Freeze mercs on my Baal runners because the aura is marginally effective there).



     
  14. korialstraz

    korialstraz IncGamers Site Pal

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    Very good points, but my style of play doesn't really suit a Fire Wall build. Talking about this made me interested in one though. Maybe I will try it out someday :wink2:

    I didn't think about that, but seeing it that way opens up a whole lot of other possibilities. A prayer merc with Insight is supposed to give tons of mana and health regen, a might merc helps with dealing with what is immune to you (I don't think there exist duel elementaly immune monsters that's also immune to physical is there?) and defiance merc for some added defense. It all depends on the equipment on the merc ofc and your personal preferences :thumbsup:


     
  15. JayhawkFan

    JayhawkFan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    in ladder a long time ago i made a tri-ele sorc with Tals.

    20 orb
    20 nova
    20 lite mastery
    20 firewall
    10+ fire mastery

    with a couple of +skills from things like torch, spirit and soj's i found that the +2 cm from tals orb was decent.

    infinity really helps tri-eles a ton.
     
  16. svinderling

    svinderling IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hybrid trimentalist...

    The way I see it is this:

    Firewall is quite effective even if you don't have a ton of free skill points, which is why you should use it. You need to be very cost efficient when it comes to skillpoints. So firewall is the natural choice for me.

    Those extra points can be spent on Lightningskills.


     

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