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Hunting TC3s

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by T72on1, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    I have a confession to make: I absolutely love TC3s. I don't know what is it that attracts me to them so much, but that's the way it is. Unless it's a very useful item like a Windforce, Death's Web or Death's Fathom, I'm usually far more happy to find a TC3 than a TC87. Mostly to add them to my collection, although I have been using quite some TC3 items as twinking gear as well in the past.

    So when I read about Seaborgium's Blood Moor challenge, the first thing that crossed my mind was 'I'm curious to see how many TC3s he will find this way'. Quite fast I realized that the answer is: 'not many'. Reason being that only a couple of them can drop in the Blood Moor. This, however, led to a next question: 'which interesting things can we do around TC3s and the early parts of the game'?

    That got me thinking about an untwinked TC3 hunting challenge. Obviously doing this with a high end character would be far more efficient, but I'd rather run some high end area with such a character instead. Doing this with an untwinked character should be interesting.

    I was thinking the most efficient character would be a Holy Fire Paladin. Low level skill, no mana issues, aura should be enough to kill creeps and then use an actual attack (normal attack should do) on bosses, Vigor for extra speed, which will be crucial, option of +skills at low levels. Other classes all have some upsides as well, but seem to also have downsides: Assassin (BoS is awesome, but no good area attack that doesn't require mana), Barbarian (has Find Item, but lacks area attack and low level frw option), Sorc (has good attacks and teleport at lvl 18, but will have mana issues), skelliemancer (strong from the start, but no frw, limited CE due to mana issues).

    Strategy would be to rush to the Cube in Act 2 as fast as possible, to be able to cube up gems (mainly topazes of course) and get some quick levels (and as such skill points, with an extra point from the first quest and another one from Radament), then start doing dedicated runs on specific targets, unless it would be a good idea to gain some more levels first.

    Targets would be as described in the TC3 hunting FAQ draft. Not sure which one would be best actually, one in particular or a combination run of a few targets? Also, I had read that draft in the past, but it's been a while, so my memory was kind of vague, and apparantly wrong. I had thought (hoped?) that all TC3s could be found in Act 1, but apparantly 4 items can't: Blinkbat's, Sander's cap, Vidala's body armor and Tancred's boots. So now I'm wondering: what is the lowest target in Act 2 that can drop them? Radament? Or should I even venture beyond the Cube for those? Also, what would be the best target for those 4? I know Normal Cows would be a good target, but I'd like to keep progress past the Cube to a minimum, as an added challenge, to keep it somewhat, how should I call it, low-profile in some way?

    Gear would consist of socketed body armor and helm, stuffed with topazes. The highest possible would be 3os in the body armor and 2os in the helm, I think. Rest of the gear can't have much mf I think, except for charms and some particular items like Gull dagger (one of the TC3 targets) and Tancred's amulet combined with one other item of the set. Ideal setup with Gull, 5 perfect topazes and the Tancred's would still have 300% mf without charms, so not too bad. Then again, cubing up chipped and flawed gems to perfect takes a while. Not sure if Andariel only drops a tier 3 gem the first time she gets killed, or can always do so? In any case, gem shrines will be my best friend :).

    The rest of the gear would be primarily focused towards killing power and running speed (mainly boots and charms). Merc won't matter that much, I think, but can have some additional mf as well.

    Main focus of the challenge obviously are the TC3s. But it will probably be interesting to keep track of all S/U found, as well as some other items (jewels of envy come to mind). I'd also be curious to see how high a level such a character would get over time.

    I probably won't start this soon, as I want to focus on my untwinked level 99 character and a Lack of Information tournament character first, but I was rather excited about this, so I wanted to get it off my chest, and start the theorycrafting part already. Any remarks, additions, corrections, answers, ... would be greatly appreciated :).

    One last question: seeing how much I enjoyed the Zodthon, I was wondering if this could be the inspiration for another tournament? There are different options. We could all run for a full TC3 grail, and just see who is the fastest to complete it. Or we could just have a timeframe in which the tournament runs (a week, two weeks, ... ?), and then see who found most TC3s. In that case it would probably be best to have some kind of points table, depending on the rarity of the item.

    So I was wondering if any of you would be interested to enter such a tournament, based on hunting TC3s? Maybe there has already been one in the past? I'm not sure, and my searching skills aren't the best around I'm afraid ... :oops:

    Thanks :).
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
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  2. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    There was one about not going further than act 2 excluding (I think) duriel. That opened up a lot more than TC3 however. Point was to gather as many sets and uniques as possible within the first two acts in a limited amount of time.
     
  3. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    Personally I wouldn't join. I have completed all the TC3s so motivation to run is low. I prefer to run alvl85 / council etc where I can get nice drops and experience.
     
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  4. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    Does anyone know if quest-bugging Andy makes her drop the enlarged gem every time? If so, this could be your fastest way to get higher topazes.
     
  5. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    How does one do that? I assume it involves running multiple copies of D2, then having one character creating the game and another one killing Andariel?

    Does it mean she doesn't drop the enlarged gem otherwise, except for the first time?
     
  6. Brak

    Brak IncGamers Member

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    if you talk to Warriv after killing her for the first time she'll always drop her quest drop
     
  7. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    How-to Quest bug Andy. Essentially, just talk to Warriv after killing her the for first time and you get the quest drop every time.

    I actually have no idea if she drops the gem regardless. Either way, quest-bugging her isn't hard, and most people do it anyways without even knowing. If she drops the gem regardless, great, but if not then it's something to test anyways.
     
  8. Timinator

    Timinator IncGamers Member

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    I like your enthusiasm however I completed the tc3s in 2003 and have no plans to explicitly hunt them again. I have enough characters I'm trying to get OUT of normal without starting another who will be stuck there :)
     
  9. Silver Moon

    Silver Moon IncGamers Member

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    I am intrested in any kind of tournament, since I have never been in one before. If you do go ahead with hosting this tournament I would love to join. The same goes for any future tournaments or the next zodathon :D
     
  10. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Gem is not dropped regardless. Fastest way to pgems is hellforge rushing in pre 1.10 patches since you can just portal past all of act 3 (and 2 if using a durimule).
     
  11. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    @Silver Moon Nice to see you are interested. Judging by the other replies, there probably won't be enough interest to start a real tournament. But if I do decide to proceed with this, you can always do the same and we can share our results here. And yes, you should try to join a tournament, they are lots of fun. Maybe you could try the 'A Lack of Information' tournament? It's still up and running, and doesn't require a top end character to competer, since you start from scratch.

    Btw, did you change your avatar? I really like this one.

    @helvete I wouldn't switch patches or do something like hellforge rushing for this. Cubing up gems while doing the mf runs seems like a more natural process, and like I said I don't want to proceed to the higher acts.

    Having said that, I have been searching for answers some more, and the TC3s with a higher qlvl (the 4 that Andariel can't drop) seem to be a bit of a problem in regards to the 'don't progress too far in the game for this challenge' motto :(. If I have it right, the mlvl of the monster has to be equal to or higher than the qlvl of the item for it to be able to drop it. These are the qlvls of the 4 items: Blinkbat's Form (16), Vidala's Ambush (19), Sander's Paragon (20) and Tancred's Hobnails (27).

    This means that Blinkbat's can be dropped by Radament, all fine. Vidala's Ambush and Sander's Paragon could be dropped in the Ancient Tunnels, and in all other areas from Lost City on, except for some monsters. Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to the Summoner, so the superuniques to run for those would be Duriel or Dark Elder. For Tancred's, I'd even have to go as far as Travincal, with a few exceptions (including Witch Doctor Endugu as superunique, but he's not good to reach).

    All of this is assuming that my reasoning (mlvl = or > clvl) is correct, and that my source for checking mlvls, an old offline excel application (LoD Kompendium v1.10) is correct.

    Now my intention with this isn't, and has never been, to get all TC3s in the game. I agree with common knowledge that I'll get those eventually on my mf runs for high end items. It just seemed like a fun little project.

    If I'd do this, I will probably leave out Tancred's. The rest can be attained from act 1 and act 2, which was my initial intention.

    What would be the best targets for this? Running superuniques, or just run certain areas and mainly kill the bosses and champions? Also, would a Holy Fire Paladin indeed be the best runner for this, given the notwink nature?
     
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  12. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    You won't have a gem all the time. There are two types of special drops for act bosses, the quest drop and the first kill drop.

    The first kill drop occurs when the one who dealt the killing blow to the act boss has killed him for the first time. It doesn't have "junk" like potions or nonmagical items. The game will try to produce rare, set and unique items only anr revert to lower stuff only if the intended item quality isn't possible (qlvl too high, no unique/set/rare item of that type possible). Andariael will produce one all the time if you talk to Warriv in the game in which you solved the quest.

    The quest drop occurs when the quest is solved. It will occur only once and it's not bugged. It contains a few special items, like gems for Andariel and an extra gold heap from Baal. This drop is on top of the regular drop which can lead to more than 6 items.

    Hmm, wouldn't it still be quicker to farm flawless ones in nightmare and upgrade them with gem shrines? BTW, in 1.09 you can use /p settings higher than 8, correct?

    I would visit a boss whose drops scale up with increasing /player settings and who is reached as easily as possible, with a sorc and using a map with a short way to the boss. Once he has dropped everything which Andarial cannot, I would switch to her, taking advantage of the first kill drop.

    BTW, not Tancred's Hobnails is probably the toughest item, but Sander's Paragon because there are two set caps, Sander's and Infernal.

    Does anybody have a link to a site with all rares and uniques which includes the rarity value of uniques and set items? That value decides e.g. how many unique rings turn out to be Nagelrings and how many are Sojs.
     
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  13. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the clarification.

    Sounds like a plan. Although doing it the other way around would mean I could possibly already find some of the lower level TC3s as well.

    Sorc is an obvious choice, but I'd think that she would run out of mana in no time (no Insight, low mana pool, low lvl Teleport), hence why I think Holy Fire Paladin would be good (Vigor). A really good map would obviously be essential.

    I wasn't excluding Tancred's because of it's rarity, but because I'd have to progress a lot further in the game for that item than for all the rest, which wasn't my intention to begin with.

    Definitely interested as well.
     
  14. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I think that rather than starting MF as soon as possible, it would need less time if you proceed through all of normal and do the whole at a level at which your sorc is stronger while the merc can wear Insight. The runes could come from a dozen visits of nightmare Countess. That's a matter of the conditions you want to impose on yourself, however.

    I found a bit.

    Statistics forum: http://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/set-and-unique-rarity.270599/#post-2793850

    3 in 10 set caps are Sander's Paragon, the others are Infernal Craniums.

    To make this more complete:

    Unique rings: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Unique_Rings
    Unique amulets: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Unique_Amulets
    Set rings: I cannot post the link, but 3 of 10 are Cathan's Seal, 7/10 are Angelic Halo
    Set amulets: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Set_Amulets

    I would still appreciate a comprehensive list of all set and unique vitems which covers item rarity values as well. It might be somewhere in the the Amazon Basin...

    ===================================================================================

    Edit: Found, hahahaha! It's in their treasure class lists. http://wiki.theamazonbasin.com/index.php/Armo3

    ===================================================================================
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  15. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Agreed. What you say would definitely be more efficient. Then again doing it with one of my lvl 80+ characters would be even more efficient, and not doing it at all but just wait for them to drop while mf'ing for high end loot would be the most efficient. Not progressing past Act 2 seemed like a nice challenge to me. Chances are real I regret ever even starting such a project after a few hours in though ;).

    Cool, thanks for the links :). That explains why I still haven't found that Arcanna's Sign, even after finding so many set amulets.

    I have gone through a whole lot of pages from the Basin Wiki, but never checked that one. Nice.
     
  16. Grape

    Grape IncGamers Member

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    Will be interesting task, even if you ever start it just by yourself.

    I have used lately some more MF in my earliest twinking setups. Great Charms can have up to 12 MF each with no lvl requirements. Then Gull at lvl 4, Nagels at 7 etc.

    I have all TC 3 sets/uniques already, but I like also seeing them. Also that tiny chance that some of them drops eth keeps me doing this, as I need almost all of them for my eth Grail...
     
  17. Friiser

    Friiser IncGamers Member

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    I'm missing Hotspur and Knell Striker, so there is a slight tinge of interest on my part. The problem with me is that I'd rather go for efficiency by using a decked out high level Holy Freeze paladin than struggling through low level characters. My interested would wain once (if) these two were found.

    [Lurk on]
     
  18. Brak

    Brak IncGamers Member

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    I dont think so
    If you've never done it, face stomping early Normal with a Holy Fire Paladin is something everyone should experience. Back when chippies were currency I used to do this on Bnet, and it is hilarious.

    Another fun, but much less efficient build), is a Bowler Druid. Pair him with a highish level poison creeper and I think you could also have a lot of fun with it

    If you get enough interest, I'd personally keep it to Act II to fit the theme, and just see who can farm the most TC3s. But I dont really have time for something like this so I'd be out.
     
  19. NanoMist

    NanoMist IncGamers Member

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    I'd participate for fun, but I wouldn't invest much time in this to be honest. Maybe set a time limit of x hours, like helvete mentioned. For participants that want to continue playing, they can run a new batch (with a new untwinked character). Similar to the xx hour batch of runs in RFO.
     
  20. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Sounds like a plan. What would be a good amount of time? 20 hours max? Tournament woud run over 4 weeks or so, so you have plenty of time to get to that 20 hours, or can have multiple characters? Just putting numbers out here, as I have very limited experience with tournaments.
     

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