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Hunter questions

Discussion in 'Druid' started by petri, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. petri

    petri IncGamers Member

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    Hunter questions

    Hi,
    I'm planning on making a hunter and had some questions for you pro's out there. I'm a bit tossed up as to whether to make a pure hunter, or a huntermentalist using fissure/volc. OK on to my questions.

    1.) How much does the spirit wolf AR bonus help? If I want to go with fissure/volc, and max them, I pretty much have to go with 20 dire/20 griz/ 20 HOW /20fissure /20 volc, and that doesn't leave anything left for other skills ( I never really go beyond lvl90). So, what is my bear/wolf's chance to hit things in hell with a lvl 1 (~10 with skills) spirit wolf bonus? If it is 50% then I obviously need to sink some points into spirit wolves.

    2.) Bow decision: Even with a high dex and a maxed HOW I'm guessing that a hunter's AR is generally pretty low. Thus, the 2 bows that I was considering using are Goldstrike (upped eventually) with its 100-150% AR bonus, which hits 10 frames shaeled and with 40% oias. On the downside, this bow upped to Hydra requires 134 str. The other is Eaglehorn with its ITD, higher base damage, and AR bonus (which helps with bosses where ITD doesn't work). Eaglehorn hits 11 frames with shael and 50% oias, and only requires 97 str. to equip.

    Other bow possibilities I looked at were:
    Upped Witchwild String - the mods look great, and its not hard to get to 10 frames, but there is no AR bonus here, plus its hard to decide if the damage here is as good. Forgetting the amp (which I'll rarely get to cast as a hunter), the deadly strike seems to somewhat make up for its lower base damage, but its hard for me to really tell.

    Buriza - I can get to 12 frames here pretty easy, and damage isn't bad, but the str. req. is too high if its upped, and there's no significant AR help here either.

    Demon Machine - Easy to get to 11 frames, and a semi-significant AR boost here, but the damage seems too low, and the str. req. to high when upped. Also, I read about how the blast radius for exploding arrow no longer carries crushing blow/poison/etc., and that is the only part of the arrow that auto-hits (the fire dmg of a lvl 6 exploding arrow).

    Kuko - same as with demon - no longer does exploding arrow do wonderful things in 1.10.

    Windforce - I wish I had one. ;-) No, really even if I did, without AR bonus, I'm not sure if it would be the best bow for me.


    Please let me know what you think...are spirit wolves necessary, and which bow would you go with? I want to avoid wearing angelic set stuff so I can wear + skills items for my summons.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Beowulf

    Beowulf IncGamers Member

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    Silence crusador dude the way to go!!! That and a kuko for packs. Both of these bows have served me well in the past.
     
  3. FenrisWulf

    FenrisWulf IncGamers Member

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    @petri:
    AR: As long as you maintain a decent level in relation to the monsters that you're fighting, then your Chance To Hit shouldn't suffer too much. Anyhow, I can't see your AR being all that terrible as long as you use HoW and have a decent amount of Dex; on my Kuko switch, I only have a Raven Frost and Jalal's Mane adding any AR, and with HoW and ~260 Dex, my AR is 5K+. Once my Lava Gouts kick in, it's 7K+ AR. With Eaglehorn, HoW, and Enchant (from Lava Gouts) going, I'm at 10K+ AR. :) No real problem with hitting anyone at clvl 85, really.

    Spirit Wolves: I personally didn't feel any strong need to invest in them; after 5 points and +13 skills, they're already boosting my Summons' AR by +475%. Never seen my Grizzly miss, which is good enough for me. Conclusion: +skills should make everything better.

    Bow Choice: Eaglehorn works fine for me; after all of my damage adders take effect (Might, HoW, Enchant), I'm hitting 1.4-3.5K damage (though about 700-800 of that is Poison), at 10 fpa. However, all of the other bows/xbows that you listed will work perfectly fine; Hunters really aren't that item dependent, except for wanting a decent bow and as much in the way of +skills as possible. Buriza is likely the easiest of all the ones you listed to work with, as it's pretty much automatically maxed out on frames (requires very little IAS), and deals a ton of damage. Kuko is the most fun to use on crowds, since you get the flamethrower effect of a piercing Explosive Arrow (same for Demon Machine); it's also pretty good against PIs. Witchwild String is just a fun bow in general, same with Eaglehorn. As Beowulf mentioned, a Silenced Crusader is also very cool (+skills! Resists! Decent damage!).

    Hunter vs. Huntermentalist: I think that the Hunter is a bit less versatile than the Huntermentalist, because he lacks a good PI solution in the absence of good items or Amp Damage. To make a well synergized (midlevel) Huntermentalist, though, you need to skimp on Summoning points, meaning that you require more +skills. However, a mediocrely synergized Huntermentalist (full Summoning [max Oak/HoW, Dire, Grizzly, points in Ravens, Spirit Wolves, Poison Creeper, and Carrion Vine], max Volcano, spare points to Fissure) can be finished by clvl 75, and the Elementalist aspect will become more and more powerful as you level up. Either one is great, though, and a ton of fun. :)
     
  4. Illuminati-King

    Illuminati-King IncGamers Member

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    Me too

    Im also making one, but the only bow i have is a wf lol...oh what to do.

    BTW i JUST started it in game druidic/circle on USEast...if anyone would like to make on with me, come and join :)
     
  5. FenrisWulf

    FenrisWulf IncGamers Member

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    @Illuminati-King:
    Heh, a Windforce would work quite well, too. :p
     
  6. psuedoenviro

    psuedoenviro IncGamers Member

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    Here's my experiece with bows in 1.10 both as a zon and a hunter.

    WWS beats out a Kuko. The piece from kuko is really what makes it a good bow these days and able to deal a little damage to alot of monster. But if your willing to settle for just 33% pierce using razortail belt then WWS is your bow. The resists on the bow really free up gear choices (more ias) and it does roughly double damage. The lvl 20 magic arrow is a huge benefit and very few things will be immune. Also WWS gets one more socket.

    Dire wolves give you a way to damage packs so take the high damage of WWS over Kuko.

    Personally I prefer a hunter to use a bow over a crossbow, but that's just stylistic reasons.

    You really should have enough AR if using HoW, especially with the +skill and +summoning gear

    Uped Goldstrike would be the boss killer your probably looking for with its increased damage to demons. Combine with LoH and your good to go.

    good luck
     
  7. Salo

    Salo IncGamers Member

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    Now is that upgraded witchwild or regular?

    I have a 180% perfect Kuko.

    WWS non upgraded is not as good as that I feel. at least in 109 it wasnt. I dont judge a bow by its ability to free up other gear as much, I go for maximum rich as you can dream up of type of builds (besides dreaming up rare items).
     
  8. psuedoenviro

    psuedoenviro IncGamers Member

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    Lucky you to find a perfect Kuko. :clap:

    What is the perfect setup for a Kuko wielding hunter? :scratch:

    WWS duel shealed means you only need 40 more IAS to hit the 2.5 aps and 85 to hit the 2.7. Maybe not a huge difference but gear will suffer if trying to get 105 ias for Kuko to hit 2.7 aps (9 fpa).

    That 40 resist is huge because your not getting hit for phy damage as much as ele. Max resists as opposed to base will keep you alive much longer. If you plan to max resists using charms, them you can not use ele charms or damge/ar charms.

    Based on my experience Kuko could be argued to be a better bow for early nm, but once pass act 3 i exclusively used WWS. Ive never upgraded either of them, but once uped I think WWS would take Kuko hands down.

    I would really like to know what the ideal hunter build would be in your oppinion, maybe it would improve my own hunter.

    Thanks
     
  9. Salo

    Salo IncGamers Member

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    I use ladder to feed my non ladder, i dont actually take any enjoyment from it, i hate it. the upgraded perf kuko is awaiting nonladder. It has never been plucked once even. a virgin elite kuko, moan. anyways.

    So, i have non ladder fire charms. some enormous ones. a few lightning ones that go lie above 120 on a lc :). sick yes. however, the key is fire smalls and fire lc's. Whatever you add that has fire gets multiplied several times. if you have a razortail, this gets multiplied 83% of the time. the explosion poofs so many times and the fire is in all of them. So.... i noticed that without the charms the kuko can kill in later nm. i messed up my guy and went HoW when i was building a kuko/elemental shooter. cant do both, I was just stuck on old 1.09 builds in my head. I would have had to use something like Eaglehorn, which i didnt want to do. (more than viable, might be better even, just I wanted to go the less traveled route and use my years of collected fire charms. see, if you are on ladder, you cannot have the charms i have. they are fluke charms or rolled charms, traded many times till they wind up in my bin for a nice Zod rune or an Ist (ahem, i bought them for 40 cents a piece one day, shrugs)


    well I have 4 summon gc's, 1 with a little fire damage, 3 with max damage on them. just nice, people traded them as fodder. two 4 and one 3, maiming mods. Im assuming now it will all work well. I am going to go poison creeper, i hear he can be buffed. he is rather a decent chap for making the world stay green and forgoes me having to add poison damage charms instead of multiplied fire ones.

    Oak sage is the key to NOT using a witchwild. I should geta decent WWS and upgrade it on ladder tonight. i like to have the cool stuff ready to go when i collapses. Witchwild does not pierce and is completely reliant on physical damage, so therefore, HoWolverine is needed and makes for a very solid build. I wonder what upgraded one with 2 shaels would do. i bet its worth 2 shaels and not ias cuz its 10 ias difference.

    I am also not fond of a demon limb. you need a large collection of Ort runes and chips to repair it unless you have 200,000 to bring it from 1 to full 20. I only use demon on my flaming rabies guy for a duel, where style counts more.

    I want to know if a 5/5 fire facet in gear will cause my total fire splash damage to get the -5% resists. if so, I might use the shako i made that uses one.

    for boots I figured out that Cow King leathers are the best possible to use. mf/20 dex/25-35 fire damage (most possible on a boot) and 30 runwalk. For a hat, well, Im guessing a fire jewel in a jalal's if no mf is desired. Amulet can go one of which way. with highlords you lose a chunk in summons, cuz i have a 3 summons 84 life amulet, yet mara's might be need for hell resist. Oak sage and huge life really help not need as much of course. Lavagouts a must. belt, well the razortail from 108 has 50% pierce on it and can be discerned from looking at the stats. they do exist and were not duped. i just cant get my friend to sell me his. however, nosferatu's coil causes the build to step up one frame. realize though that you do not need to shoot 200 arrows, a might merc and a bear beat the poop out of stuff with oak sage letting them live a long time.

    its a hard build to do. you have to decide how buff your bear or dogs will be, and if you attempt to use poison creeper or not, gear wise. some say that spirit forge mail with 2 big fire jewels in it makes the build rock more, but eh, not enough pizazz for me. i have chains of honour that i can use cuz resists and +2 skills are so needed i feel.

    anyways im sleepy.
     
  10. psuedoenviro

    psuedoenviro IncGamers Member

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    I thought the explosive arrow splash lost the ablitily to tack on other mods but, if I understand what your saying, fire damage from gear will be added to the explosions. I can see where you could do quite a bit of fire damage to multiple targets them.

    Yeah im ladder, and went with HoW so maybe not a fair comparision with kuko.

    I use Lone_Wolf's sniperzon build for most gear with a few exceptions. I focused more on OW, CB, and poison.

    thanks
     
  11. petri

    petri IncGamers Member

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    Well I've been working on my hunter with Witchwild string and I'd have to say Witchwild is a pretty nice bow.

    I was curious as to how the various bows stacked up in terms of physical damage per frame at various combinations of ias, equipment, etc.

    I wish I knew how to post a table from excel, but I'll try to summarize briefly.

    I chose two approaches...
    Approach 1: Max skills, good resists, limited ias. This approach is meant to make your summons better, and make you more capable of taking a few hits.

    Approach 2: Less skills, less resists, but more ias, and more critical strike (highlords + gore-riders).

    Using Approach 1 (no highlords, so less ias, no 37% deadly strike): the top unique bow for physical damage per frame was shaeled windforce, but amazingly, dual shaeled upped witchwild string came in second, due to its high % deadly strike (my calculations were done at clvl 80). For these calculations I restricted the oias (i.e. not counting shaels or inherent weapon ias) to 40% for the calcs (20-25% gloves, one ias jewel).

    Using Approach 2 (highlords + goreriders for ~50% deadly strike): the top unique bow was still shael'd windforce (this time by a bigger margin), and shael'd eaglehorn was second, followed closely by dual shaeled witchwild string, shael'd widowmaker, and shael'd upped goldstrike.

    Things I did not account for were widowmakers guided arrow (a nice bonus - autohit in addition to more dmg), goldstrike's undead/demon dmg bonus, witchwild's chance for amp, nor did i try to take into account different attack ratings, which will be best for eaglehorn, goldstrike, or widowmaker (guided).

    Unfortunately for both Approach 1 and Approach 2 both Shael'd upped Kuko and Shael'd upped Riphook lagged far behind in terms of physical dmg per frame, although Riphook achieved 9 frames quite easily. And I didn't account for Kuko's fire damage - I thought all of the exploding arrow add-on's were dropped in 1.10 (i.e. no crushing blow with explosion, etc.) but if off-weapon fire dmg is still added to exploding arrow radius, then you've got a potential build right there...

    So, in summary, the huge critical strike on WWS along with the easily achieved 10 frame attack, the nice need to never refill arrows, and the nice resist bonus make for a pretty nice, cheap bow. Windforce is still better though, but what would you expect?
     
  12. Salo

    Salo IncGamers Member

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    Yeah WF is not an option, makes the build to eh, well everyone knows :)

    I think that an upped WWS would be best for a hunter that goes HoW. it just fires so fast without sacrificing mf gear. yes mf, mf is pimp.

    Yeah, the fire from off the weapon adds to kuko's blast as well as the initial hit.... ahh yes, we tend to forget about that! if you ahve 3 monsters in a tight area, 2 of them lining up, this is what it does if you hit 2 of them directly, 4 shots on 2 and 2 shots on the one completely missed. nice if you get fire damage up to like say, hm, 400, thats a heap when you consider you have it a quick rate plus your furries smacking. not bad at least :D

    and you can use oak sage then and look cool with purple bow. i duno, i think it has status.

    I gota trade for a wws, i just have to go out there and spam i guess, somethnig i hate doing in HOW MANY RUNES FOR MY CRACKED SASH uswest world.
     

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