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Hunger Speed

Discussion in 'Druid' started by TurfTalker, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. TurfTalker

    TurfTalker IncGamers Member

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    Hunger Speed

    What is the max fps one can achieve when using hunger?

    How much ias would this require?:wave:
     
  2. Valvolux

    Valvolux IncGamers Member

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    4fpa is the fastest Hunger can get, and the IAS really depends on what weapon you're using.
     
  3. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Copied from one of my guides:

    All IAS is considered to be WEAPON IAS, unless otherwise stated. Other breakpoints exist, but I ignored any that required more than 15% off-weapon IAS to reach.

    Phase Blade-
    6 Frame Attack- (30% IAS + 10% off-weapon IAS) OR (40% IAS)
    5 Frame Attack- (45% IAS + 10% off-weapon IAS) OR (55% IAS)
    4 Frame Attack- 85% IAS

    Chu-Ko-Nu or Demon Crossbow-
    6 Frame Attack- (15% off-weapon IAS) OR (10% IAS)
    5 Frame Attack- 25% IAS
    4 Frame Attack- 65% IAS

    Large Axe/Great Axe/Military Axe/Gothic Axe/Champion Axe-
    6 Frame Attack- (45% IAS + 5% off-weapon IAS) OR (50% IAS)
    5 Frame Attack- 65% IAS
    4 Frame Attack- (80% IAS + 10% off-weapon IAS) OR (85% IAS + 5% off-weapon IAS) OR (90% IAS)

    Feral Axe-
    6 Frame Attack- 40% IAS
    5 Frame Attack- 60% IAS
    4 Frame Attack- 75% IAS

    Thresher/Giant Thresher-
    6 Frame Attack- (45% IAS + 5% off-weapon IAS) OR (50% IAS)
    5 Frame Attack- 65% IAS
    4 Frame Attack- (80% IAS + 10% off-weapon IAS) OR (85% IAS + 5% off-weapon IAS) OR (90% IAS)

    These are the only weapons capable of reaching a 4-frame attack with Hunger (actually, you can reach it with mauls and speed 0 Axes/Polearms, too, but it requires too much of a gear sacrifice to be worthwhile). You will want to use one of these if you are dealing large amounts of elemental damage, or if you have 67% or more Crushing Blow. Now let’s compare the white versions of the 4 “fast†hunger weapons:

    Both the Phase Blade and Demon Crossbow deal 33 average damage. The Elite Axes/Polearms will deal around 75 average damage, making them far and away the best leechers of the pack. The Phase Blade has the advantage of coming with a shield, which makes it the preferred weapon for Kodiaks who like blocking or who use their shield as an additional source of elemental damage. The Phase Blade has 6 sockets and can hit top speed using 3 jewels and one open socket. The Demon Machine has 5 sockets and can hit top speed using 3 jewels and one open socket. The Champion Axe and Giant Thresher have 6 sockets and can hit top speed using 0 jewels, 2 open sockets, and 10% off-weapon ias (or 2 jewels, 1 open socket, and 0% off-weapon ias). The Feral Axe has 4 sockets and requires all 4 to hit top speed (3 shaels and 1 jewel of fervor). Neither the Phase Blade nor the Demon Crossbow requires repairs. Stat point wise, the Feral Axe has no dex requirement, the Champion Axe requires 59, the Demon Crossbow requires 98, the Phase Blade requires 136, and the Giant Thresher requires 140. Considering all of that, the best weapons of the bunch are the 6os Phase Blade (if you want a shield), the 6os Champion Axe (if you want more damage/leech with low stat reqs), and the 6os Giant Thresher (if you want to max out your damage and range).

    These are the best ways to reach a 4-frame Hunger:
    *6os Phase Blade with 2 Shaels, 3 Jewels of Fervor, and one unused socket.
    *5os Chu-Ko-Nu with 1 Shael, 3 Jewels of Fervor, and one unused socket.
    *6os Champion Axe/Giant Thresher with 4 Shaels, two unused sockets, and 10% OIAS.
    *Jeweler’s Champion Axe/Thresher/Giant Thresher of Quickness with 2 Shaels, two unused sockets, and 10% oias
    *_______ Champion Axe/Thresher/Giant Thresher of Quickness with two sockets from Larzuk stuffed with Shaels, and 10% oias
    *Jeweller's Champion Axe/Thresher/Giant Thresher of _______ with 4 Shaels and 10% oias
    *Mechanist's Champion Axe/Thresher/Giant Thresher of Quickness with any four other affixes, 2 Shaels, and 10% oias
    *4os Feral Axe with 3 Shaels and a Jewel of Fervor
    *Jeweler’s Feral Axe of _______ with 3 Shaels and a Jewel of Fervor
    *_______ Feral Axe of Quickness with two sockets from Larzuk stuffed with a Shael and a Jewel of Fervor
    *Jeweler’s Feral Axe of Quickness with a Shael, a Jewel of Fervor, and 2 open sockets.
    *Mechanist’s Feral Axe of Quickness with any four other affixes, a Shael, and a Jewel of Fervor.

    As you can see, once you start factoring in magic items, the Feral Axe, Champion Axe, and Giant Thresher quickly outpace the other “fast†hunger weapons in terms of raw power. Theoretically, one could get a rare Cruel Mechanist’s Feral Axe of Storms Of Quickness with a Shael and a Ruby Jewel of Fervor that had 340% enhanced damage, 75% ias, and 6-120 lightning damage that attacked at 4 frames per second and leeched 100+% of the physical damage dealt. Champion Axes and Giant Threshers have the advantage because they can become just as good... but they're actually SHOPPABLE (Feral Axes cannot be purchased). Champion Axes can be purchased from Hratli, while Giant Threshers can be bought from Halbu and Larzuk. If you were patient enough, you could actually shop Larzuk for a Cruel Giant Thresher of Quickness and then pray for 2-sockets.

    Set/Runewords/Uniques of note:
    A Shael’d Azurewrath with 5% off-weapon IAS will reach a 5-frame attack. This makes a PHENOMINAL Kodiak weapon (best in the game, in my opinion), since it has great physical damage (compared to any of the non-magical 4-frame weapons) and deals 750 average combined magic damage per hit (3750 per second). It also has +1 to all skills (nice), and carries the Sanctuary Aura, which is INCREDIBLE for this build. You see, Sanctuary is bugged and doesn’t do a lot of the things that it’s supposed to do (such as increased damage vs. undead)… but there are two things that it DOES do. First, it lets you ignore the physical resistances of undead (including PIs). Second, and even more importantly… it lets you leech off of normally unleechable undead. And since most unleechable monsters are undead (are there any unleechables that AREN’T undead?), this makes Hunger so much more powerful.

    Some people like Lightsabers for their hunger druids, but they are far too slow, incapable of getting higher than 6 frames per attack. And yes, I realize that only a Kodiak would consider that slow for an attack without a startup animation. It’s a shame, because the mods are very tasty, otherwise.

    In the interest of being complete, a Breath of the Dying Phase Blade (Hah!) would have a 5-frame attack speed. Beyond that, it would be entirely inferior to Azurewrath in every single way imaginable (far less elemental damage, no bonus vs. undead).

    The other weapons of interest are mainly going to be Mauls (and the exceptional/elite versions). Here are the breakpoints for those. Please note that I have eliminated all options that require more than 30% off-weapon IAS. I have also excluded Great Mauls/Martel de Fers/Thunder Mauls, because the white versions are inferior to Champion axes and none of the Unique versions are worthwhile for this build:

    Maul/War Club/Ogre Maul-
    8 frame attack- (45% IAS and 25% off-weapon IAS) OR (50% IAS and 20% off-weapon IAS) OR (55% IAS)
    7 frame attack- (55% IAS and 25% off-weapon IAS) OR (60% IAS and 20% off-weapon IAS) OR (65% IAS)
    6 frame attack- (65% + 30% oias) OR (70% + 25% oias) OR (75% + 20% oias) OR (80% and 15% oias) OR (85% ias)
    5 frame attack- (95% + 30% oias) OR (100% ias).
    4 frame attacks require 100% + 70% oias through 120% + 50%, and are, for all intents and purposes, unreachable by this build


    Sets/Uniques of Interest:
    A Shael’d Windhammer reaches a 6-frame attack with only 15% off-weapon ias (i.e. one jewel of fervor in your helm or armor). The 50% built-in crushing blow gives you a LOT of freedom with the rest of your gear, and the twister will actually deal a lot of damage if you use some points to synergize it (450+ damage when fully synergized, triggered at a rate of better than once per second). Remember, though, that a 6-frame attack with 100% crushing blow is only equivalent to a 4-frame attack with 67% crushing blow.

    A Double-Shael’d IK Maul with 15% off-weapon IAS, or a double Jewel-of-Fervor’d IK Maul with 25% IAS (from the gloves, perhaps?) reaches a 6 frame attack, too, and is probably an even better choice than the Windhammer. You get a bit less Crushing Blow (35-40% instead of 50%), and lose out on some physical damage (barely less average ED, but no Twister), but you will MORE than make up for that once you start adding more IK pieces and get those insane Elemental damage boosts. My favorite pieces to use are the Belt (good fire and lightning resist, big str bonus, 25% fhr with 2 other pieces), then the Gauntlets (+str and dex, 25% ias), then the boots (life and 40% faster run-walk), then the armor (resists, enchant, and fhr), in that order. That’s mostly because of what you have to give up than what you gain (there are no fantastic Kodiak belts, few fantastic Kodiak gloves, but several great Kodiak boots, and the Duress should never be taken off, IMO).

    Miscellaneous Set/Uniques of Interest:
    A triple-Shael’d Aldur’s Rhythm will reach a 6-frame attack with 5% oias. Replace one of those Shaels with a Jewel of Fervor and you need 10% oias to hit 6 frames. With solid lightning damage, this makes a great Twink weapon for the Kodiak. If you throw on the Helm or the Boots, as well, you get a huge 150% AR bonus, which comes in really handy (boosting your chance to hit is often more effective than boosting your damage, speed, or crushing blow).

    A Shael’d Ribcracker (or a Jewel of Fervor’d Ribcracker and 5% oias) will get you a 6 frame attack, 50% crushing blow, 100% enhanced defense, and FANTASTIC physical damage (especially once upgraded). This is a very popular choice for Hunger druids, and with good reason. While it may not be as powerful as some of the more elite weapon choices, it’s cheaper, has lower requirements, and isn’t far behind.

    As for which gear is best… a 4-frame weapon (the aforementioned rare Feral Axe, for instance) combined with 100% crushing blow is the best boss-killer in the game. Against normal monsters, Azurewrath is head and shoulders above the rest of the weapons, especially when paired with a good shield. There'd be a two-way tie for second best between the IK Maul and a good Magical/Rare Feral Axe/Giant Thresher/Champion Axe (such as a 2os Cruel Giant Thresher of Quickness). After that, the list would read Lightsaber, Ribcracker, and Windhammer, in that order. Of course, this is just my opinion, so feel free to disagree.



     
  4. Dimmu Borgir

    Dimmu Borgir IncGamers Member

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    Those all look like they're for Werebear. Mind posting the stats for in Werewolf form? I guess people forget you can use Hunger as a Werewolf, too?

    Some people, like me, prefer Wolf.
     
  5. Jary

    Jary IncGamers Member

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    First off, Dimmu, you'd be an idiot for using hunger as a wolf. Why? First off, you have feral rage which is 3x better, increases your speed and actually deals descent damage too. Plus, Bears can charge up damage due to werebear skill and maul, which greatly ampflies the effect of Hunger... as a wolf your practically doing base damage with Hunger... u really wanna be hungering for like 100 life/mana? So I think its safe to say its "implied" that you'd be using bear.
     
  6. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Hunger in a wolf is sub-optimal, since it's consistantly a frame behind the Bear's hunger speed (and with Hunger, speed is everything). Consider that, all other things being equal, a 5-frame Hunger will deal 20% more damage per second than a 6-frame Hunger, and a 4-frame Hunger will deal 25% more damage per second than a 5-framer.

    If you're stuck on being a wolf, that's fine, most of the weapon recommendations will still be exactly the same. The only thing that's going to change are the breakpoints. Use Dragoon's calculator to find the new breakpoints, make sure you have enough IAS to hit them, and go a-hungering.



     
  7. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Edit: Sorry, double-post
     

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