How much vitality for a dex-amazon

fledgeling

Diabloii.Net Member
How much vitality for a dex-amazon

I am building a high dex amazon (perhaps even a titan equivalent - full dexterity?) and wondering if this build can survive in hell.

Fredsta used to write about a glass cannon amazon, with pure dexterity but Im not that sure if my build can do it - my plan is to get 40pts into the cold arrows to utilize them with a high dex/damage bow to leech mana back.

I know a guy who has a level 93 amazon (esphack) who is using multishot. He put 100 pts into vitality and uses a BO-slave before CS-ing.
My char is supposed to be more of an "all-round" char - Im thinking of not leveling her via CS.
 

fledgeling

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

Well, currenly Im thinking of:

3res helmet (no life though), or 114 life hat, or the 20str/10res unique
+2/144/20ias/6ml gothic
death's gloves + belt (ias/15 res/life leech) or rare gloves with 10ias, some res, dex + belt with res and cold dmg
no idea about rings/amulet (thinking of +1 ama, 18prism, 9min amu and some min/dex/res rings - if I ever acquire them; currenly only have min/dex rings)
as for boots no idea if I should use goblins or some resists boots (got 2res/9dex boots)

armor - twitch (20 ias), but perhaps I should use something with res?

I leveled her to ~36 and killed duriel for some guy, she can hide behind valk quite well, but Im worried that later one monster hit will result in a death
 

Locke07

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

My thoughts are cold arrow has the benefit of being able to do good damage without the need of a high damage bow. Nor dexterity- if the full/high dex build is your aim and you have a good gothic bow, there is no point to not use strafe instead.

If you want to use ice arrow, you could allow yourself to have more life and use a medium-high range dmg (faster attack bow) to gain back mana (with enough leach it should be enough.

Another option you have is to play through the game being a multi-zon, and use strafe in conjunction with the cold arrow to be able to deal with a variety of monsters.

However, with all that said I really like Freds glass cannon bow zon. They are a fun build, expensive, but fun and can really clear out CS solo. Plus they can have high survivability if played correctly.
 

HegemonKhan

Diabloii.Net Member
PHYS bowzon reference guide

some links on bowzons (phys damage):

thoughts on phys damage bowzons:

(read my "Quick Bowazon Guide" post. i explain the difficulties in making a phys damage bowzon)

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=650228

fredsta's glass cannon:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=401759

another link on bowzons:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=651248

bows' discussion link:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=633753
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to directly answer your question about vit/life and dex/damage for a PHYS damage bowzon:

PHYS damage bowzon:

1. the more stat pts u put into vit (life), the less u can put into dex (damage).
2. the more stat pts u put into dex (damage), the less u can put into vit (life).

this is an unfortunate fact, as a phys damage bowzon needs both. to be able to kill (dex-damage) and to not be killed (vit-life).

Even with a perfect gothic bow (most damage bow but slowest speed) or rune bow (less damage but more speed) or double bow (least damage bow but fastest speed) or balista xbow (highest damage xbow but slowest speed) or cho ko no xbow (least damaging xbow but major speed), u still do low damage. this is why u need to put pts into dex for phys damage bowzons.

unfortunately, this means she has less or no life (vit) and will die easily. but she can kill at least. if u do too much vit-life than she may not die much but u probably can't kill either.
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substitute (non-vit) ways to stay alive (so u can have more dex for more damage):

skills:

1. valkyrie (too low lvl ~1-5 valk dies, and its ai SEEMS more stupid TO ME)
2. the 3 dodge skills. shouldn't need explanation. can be non-helpful if u get into lock.
3. clone (or whatever its called). won't be useful (in my experiece) at all when u have such low life. though, it does help the valk.

Gear:

its very hard to balance damage mods (CB, OW, poison) and these survival mods below.

1. KOCKBACK
2. FLEE
3. LL, ML, damage (for more LL, ML, quicker dead monsters)
4. Freeze, Chill, Slow
5. Defense (high def gear)
6. FRW (fast walk run)
7. RESISTS!!!

Tactics:

BEST: BE IN A TEAM!!! (in a team u can stay alive and destroy monster hordes with ease)

1. if u have a decent lvl valk that dosnt die quickly, stay behind your valk. this has never been easy, for me, especially at low lvl valk its ai seems so stupid.

2. stay far away! if u can see the monsters on your screen, u are too close to them. strafe can hit monsters even if u can't see them. this makes it easier to stay behind valk and so she takes the targeting and not u.

3. use any tactics u can think of. corners (slows down mulitple monsters so u take on fewer of them). hit (well shoot) and run (back up). choke points (like doorways). etc.
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if u are doing hardcore.....you are probably taking on one of the hardest challenges in d2....good luck!!!
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if you're using frozen arrow (or is it freezing arrow?) (the lvl 30 cold arrow skill) JUST for its frozen effect while still making a phys damage bowzon, than u'll need the dex up'ed for damage. and my post info applies.
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if you're making a bowzon that will get its damage with elem damage, than u have no need (besides for some LL, ML) for much phys damage (dex).

if u are doing this (elem damage bowzon build), than this is completely different from all i've posted here (as the stuff i posted is about a phys damage bowzon build), and doesn't apply to the elem damage bowzon u are making.
 
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WarlockCC

Diablo Classic Moderator
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

On my Balistazon I have 100 vit, which keeps her alive even after being hit twice. due to the damage of the bow she leeches back the life relatively fast. (ofcourse nowhere near as fast as a WW barb tends to do). Yes, it's a PvM only zon.
 

EagleEntek

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

Having made 2 amazons myself - one dex, one elemental, i can say that the elemental one although not dying as often is actualy not as usefull as they first appear.

In full 8 player cs games, with maxed immolation arrow + maxed freezing arrow (plus the synergies for damage) - you can get up to 1000+ dmg on both - but it doesnt appear to hurt the monsters that much - in nightmare and early levels of hell you can 1 hit kill things with the cold arrow, and the fire one does some limited drain effect on the cold immunes.

The valk truly is king at keeping them occupied so you can wack em with fire, and at lvl 10 she can kill on her own (albeit slowly).

The pure dex ama kills alot quicker certainly - and at later acts she doesnt have to worry about anything except physical immunes.

Not sure about a phys. dmg bow ama being able to solo the hell cs though - with the same build as Fredsta's i found it a real struggle getting up the cs to the "ring of fire" where diablo spawns - as the monster groups are so large and the howltusk / rattlecage combo makes the monsters that you hit run away behind other monsters - you end up wittling down they're health, then they flee and regen. it all again :steam:
 

HegemonKhan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

fledgling,

ach i forgot to tell how much vit, grr, sorry

i agree, the consensus seems to be at least 100 vit to stay alive decently while leaving rest of points for non-vit stat pts.

read some where that 100-150 vit gives u a safe zone (at least for the bar, pal, zon) for pvm where u really dont need more life since it doesnt really give a benefit u need.
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eagle,

for the wounded monsters running behind the fresh mosnters....thats why u want pierce to be high:D

Or, if your valk does fine for a tank/shield than u dont really need flee and knock back, so instead get some CB and OW and poison and cold damage mods on gear.

for single targets (and even small groups, if u got high pierce and good damage bow/xbow) that are phys immune...the 1 pt magic arrow u alrady have should do the job.

a cold damage bowzon should be jsut as effective as orb/bliz sorcs. same damage type. and i think the lvl 30 cold arrow skill (forgot its name, frozen arrow?) gets like ~800-900 damage which is more than orb but less than bliz.

immolation arrow will be useless on hell cs because its fire damage just like a fire sorc (well against the high fire resistant and fire immune monsters, but it'll kill the cold immune monsters who have lower fire resistance). u'll need a high lvl conviction and/or LR to break immunity and than lower resistance down.
 
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fledgeling

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

Im combining physical damage with cold damage basically, that's why Im asking. Now Imthinking of either 100 or 20 vita
 

Mirrislegend

Diabloii.Net Member
100 vit sounds like the best idea here. It's a solid investment, that will definitely give you returns (ie Warlock's post about being able to survive at least 2 hits). It also is only 20 lvls of stat pts, leaving a very large amount for dex.
 

WarlockCC

Diablo Classic Moderator
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

Yeah, a dex zon can indeed CS, but naturally does not compare to the speed of a hammerdin unles you are alone in the game. In lonely games my balistazon really wipes them out fast. I have no solution for physical immunes though. In 1.11 you could cause open wounds on physical immunes if you have a point or more of elemental damage(that the target isn't also immune to). And I haven't had the playtime to test that again.
 

fledgeling

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

That's why Im thinking of a high dex cold amazon. The idea is to combine both types of damage - melee damage (from bow and dex) and cold damage at the same attack (so NO multishot/strafe) - but Im not sure if it is working or not. Can anyone confirm, if cold arrows also transmit the melee damage to the central target? The lyring character screen seems to confirm this... No idea if crushing blow is transferred this way.

Realistically, lets aim for level 80 - that's 92 skill points to distribute (and +3/4 skills, currently got only a decent +1amulet).

41 into cold arrows
5/5/5 - dodge/evade/avoid
~7 (?) - valk -what is the level to aim for? At level 17 she gets a lance, but what about the lower skill distributions; she isnt supposed to kill; she is supposed to tank and not die in the process..
9 or 10 into critical strike (is that enough?)

That's 72 points. So technically, I could put ~20 points into either strafe or multishot. (I was hoping to distribute them at the passive skills first).
Which one is better? Im not sure how do they work actually. Is 1 point in strafe enough? (additional points give only AR?) And say 15 into multishot?
Now Im thinking of multishot, because it covers most of the screen (but only the central arrow(s?) transmits open wounds/crushing blow).

And what about the AR? Ive read that amazons seem to have AR problems with the cold spells (because they are bugged) - can anyone confirm? Will the amazon hit with ~280 dex? The plan is to put only 1 point into penetrate and have +4skills - that's 75% more AR.
 

Locke07

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

Yes, it will work. A cold arrow shot from a high damage bow will leach and inflict any melee mods you have to go with that arrow. However, I do not think it will have as much killing power as a physical strafe zon. Though I am not one who rains on people's creativity parade
 

EagleEntek

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How much vitality for a dex-amazon

Pretty sure you can get away with 10 pts into valk - she tanks well on that level - do consider multishot or strafe though - even 5 pts is good for leeching back loads of mana.

The prob. you will have is that the cold arrow will eat mana for each shot - i think its 31 mana per shot if memory serves - so thats a couple of shots and then loads of leeching to get the mana ball back up.

With most of your pts into dex you will need loads of mana items or leech - and in hell your going to need 3-4 shots per monster (or monster pack) to kill effectivily with cold arrow.

However - if the physical dmg from the bow is taken into account with cold arrow - you might do enough dmg per single shot per single monster to leech mana back from the individual monsters you hit - anyone can confirm this ?
 
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