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How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by Nimbostratus, May 18, 2008.

  1. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus IncGamers Member

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    How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    In general, about how much PDR does it take to make a noticeable dent in incoming damage? And about what point does it start negating things? Mainly talking about in Hell, but knowing it for Nightmare and maybe late normal would be nice too.
     
  2. ProfessionalBerg

    ProfessionalBerg IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Looking at some of the stronger monsters in Arreat Summit (not counting bosses), like Blood Lords and Pit Lords, I see their melee damage to max out at around 150-160 damage. So, since PDR applies before %DR (I think at least), you have to wear just as much to completely negate damage from them. Notice, however, extra strong, aura enchanted, Fanatic etc. monsters and bosses.

    As for the level at which it becomes noticeable - I'd guess 40-50 PDR is really starting to affect your survivability.

    This is for Hell, of course. For Normal, around 30-40 should completely negate damage from Minions of Destruction in a 1-player game. 7-10 should take you through most of Act 1, around 20 is sufficient for A2.
     
  3. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    afaik: pdr kicks in AFTER % dr.

    i find anything over ~20 idr is when i start to really notice it.

    the thing about d2 monsters isn't so much that they do a lot of damage, rather that there are a LOT of them, each doing pretty mediocre damage.
     
  4. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Nope. It's

    Energy Shield
    PDR/MDR
    DR%/Resists
    absorb

    Bone/Cyclone armor is somewhere up top too, but I'm not sure where.



     
  5. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Bone/Cyclone armor comes after ES and before PDR/MDR.
     
  6. nerdly

    nerdly IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Has anyone ever tried the viability of a PDR/Bone armor necro with an Insight/Prayer merc with +skills gear? I know there was a PDR/Meditate Paladin that is discussed in hushed tones, was wondering if the same had been applied across different classes.
     
  7. EpicDevia

    EpicDevia IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    i made soso with 100+pdr, 50+mdr.
    i managed to reach 40k atack too, so i think this build is not so weak in pvm. mainly i can stay alive forever in 8pl game doing nothing against all monsters ingame except some mentioned before extra strong, aura enchanted, Fanatic etc. monsters and bosses.
    u need combat merc too to support life replenish, because u still will loose some health.
    i hope ill post some movies soon about it.
     
  8. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    The problem is that Bone Armor does not help PDR and PDR does not really help Bone Armor. Your Bone Armor must be depleted before PDR comes into effect, so as long as you cast your Bone Armor regularly your PDR doesn't ever do anything. PDR could stop some roll-over damage, but in that case you have just been too slow recasting it.

    This doesn't mean it wouldn't work, just that it doesn't make a lot of sense.



     
  9. SinousSiren

    SinousSiren IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Imho, PDR x% starts to be noticed around 25% give or take some for reducing regular physical damage attacks. However, if you want to half all the regular physical damage & completely stop all incoming Special Physical Damage (Crushing Blow) you'll want a PDR of 100%. That would stop all Crushing Blow Dmg from touching your character.

    In PvM, Urdar's have a 25% chance to hit you will Special Physical Damage (CB), in addition to their regular physical attack damage.

    In PvP, this would be highly effective against melee characters to rely on Special Physical Damage (CB) or high amounts of regular physical damage to kill their fellow duelers.

    Ideally, a PDR of 100% would be my goal.


    This can mostly easily done with an Assassin character, yet every character class can get a PDR 100% just from gear alone.
     
  10. EpicDevia

    EpicDevia IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    PDR x% is capped at 50%.
    we are talking here about physical damage reduction by x :smiley:
     
  11. SinousSiren

    SinousSiren IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Regular Physical Damage is indeed cap at 50%.

    However, Special Physical Damage is NOT capped at all. Meaning a Character/Hiring can become Immunity to all Crushing Blow Damage attacks.

    This is not new knowledge, that a Character can become Immunity to Special Physical Damage (CB). Nefarius over at PK forum found the code glitch a while ago, and I tested his finding out in a modded test (used UDIE2 editor). Nefarius was & is correct about their being a reason to to get PDR 100%. I never was able to even hurt a character who had 100% PDR, when I attack him with another character who only did Crushing Blow Damage.


    Crushing Blow Immunity is worth it, imho especially against BvB'ers in PvP.


    Total Crushing Blow Immunity + 50% regular Physical Damage reduction = is reason enough, to get 100% PDR.




    Side note: The original thread author did not limited the discussion of "which" PDR type to talk about (PDR +X or PDR x% , or even MDR +X). I just noticed the other advantages of PDR x% had not been written about, that's all.

    Best of Luck~
     
  12. lukefojut

    lukefojut IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    I thought it was fairly apparent that he was discussing integer damage reduction (damage reduced by), as % PDR can't entirely negate physical damage. Also, integer damage reduction has been a hottish topic for a while now in the Community Forum...
     
  13. EpicDevia

    EpicDevia IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?


    no probs at all, mate. it is always good to know other thoughts :wave:


     
  14. nerdly

    nerdly IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Does that special damage reduction also apply to things like open wounds and deadly strike?
     
  15. ProfessionalBerg

    ProfessionalBerg IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Deadly strike is simply a doubling of physical damage, so yes (that is, if you have enough PDR to negate it).

    OW, however, is a special case. It cannot be resisted, removed or negated once applied.
     
  16. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    chug a super healing potion?



     
  17. ProfessionalBerg

    ProfessionalBerg IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    That offsets the damage somewhat, but if you heal yourself to full health, the Hpot stops working, and OW continues.
     
  18. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Fade has some OW resisting properties. That is, it reduces OW duration.


    :guiness:


     
  19. ProfessionalBerg

    ProfessionalBerg IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    So, it actually works kinda like a curse?
     
  20. SinousSiren

    SinousSiren IncGamers Member

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    Re: How much PDR is needed to be noticeable?

    Yes, Deadly Strike can double physical damage types when are delivered by either melee or range weapons...but not spells (e.g. - Barb's War Cry skill). Both types of PDR +x , x% will limit/reduce any physical damage as ProfessionalBerg mentioned previously. :thumbup:


    Special Physical Damage is just another more specific way to describe, what everyone else calls, Crushing Blow Damage. The PDR x% modifier is the only way limit or stop a unit from taking it. Basically, if it's dealing physical damage or Crushing Blow Damage, the PDR x% modifier will reduce the damage by that percentage up to max caps. The PDR x% modifier caps are:

    Regular Physical Damage (e.g.: a level 1 character punching) = 50% max

    Special Physical Damage (e.g.: found on Rattlecage armor, delivered by melee/range attacks) = unlimited in theory; in reality only limited by equipment and a maxed out Fade Skill (Assassin character).


    And yes, it's possible realistically for a character to become immune to Special Physical Damage, even with a Decrepify Curse on their head with common equipment...but I covered that twice in the recently past with a guide: google, author "Dida" "PDR x% effect upon Crushing Blow Damage".

    Or for the more challenged by google-fu:


    A maxed out Fade Skill's Curse modifier though would a character extremely tough to curse & to kill with only Special Physical Damage.... Amplify Curse is the only real way to break though the CB immunity, yet it will not stick for very long. All, because of Curses Length Reduction modifier of Fade Skill which will likely be active. The higher the active level of the Fade Skill, the less time a Decrepify or Amplify Curse can break a Special Physical Damage resistance/immunity.


    I once thought Fade skill did this too.... :scratchchin: roughly a year ago.


    Unfortunately, the Fade Skill will not reduce a Unit's taken Open Wounds Damage in any way at all. OW isn't a curse, either - as Nefarius explains here (PK post):

    See 'Open Wounds Explained (v1.11b)' dated 2007 at PK, for source quote.


    Another set of testing was done over at AB, on the same topic last year by Dida, kiraice, Go_Limyh and came to same conclusion as Nefarius.



    Basically, there is no way to prevent OW damage as it's defined as 'negative life regeneration over an 8 second period'. However, this Opens Wounds Damage only directs 'stops' a character's native-based Life Regeneration. It does not stop Item-Based or Aura-based Life Regeneration accessed sources. All of which could somewhat offset the total damage taken over time. Just don't expect item & aura-based life regeneration to full offset an OW hit taken from a level 97-98 unit.

    A level 99 unit can do 2450 damage (negative life regeneration) over 8 seconds, or 12.25 damage per frame (24 frame = 1 second). That's as high as OW damage can go, under patches 1.10 & 1.11b currently.


    If you curious what the OW Damage Formula is, google for Tommi/Jarulf's Open Wounds Formula for 1.10 is the same one as for 1.11b patch.


    Yeah, "chug a super healing potion" is a great idea! Heck, I'd say chug a bunch of them to get the chance of double life regeneration rate, as Arreat Summit webpage describes correct (for once).

    If you can't stop it (OW dmg), why not try to offset a bit? :nod:


     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2008

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