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How exactly does -%target defense work?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Chia, Apr 9, 2005.

  1. Chia

    Chia IncGamers Member

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    How exactly does -%target defense work?

    Just curious, when an item has say -25% target defense, does it take off 25% of the listed defense of the enemy? Also if you have multiple items with this mod, does it stack?
     
  2. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    It does reduce enemy defence by 25%...It works different in PvP where it's only 12.5% I think. Multiple sources will stack.
     
  3. Doll Call

    Doll Call IncGamers Member

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    negative defense mods are cut in half... they do stack... and ITD doesnt work obviously.
     
  4. combatman

    combatman IncGamers Member

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    I dont remember exactly but there was a post some months ago saying that -25% is devided by 2 in pvp(this is 100% right); means -12.5% to your opponent cumulative defense. This means that -12.5% is not taken from all the def. you character have but only (for aexample) from your shout or iron skin on barb. This mean if u have 200%ed shout u will do now "only" 187.5%% ed def, wich is not a big difference. Aniway the use of eth runes have changed a lot from 1.09 to 1.1 patch. In 1.09 eth rune was bugged and your character could always hit( becouse the target defense was not -25% but actualy became negative -0.025). I think Hal can help u out here, he also answered that post i was talking about at the beginning.
     
  5. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    The belief that -% defense is applied on total enhanced defense% from skills like shout & ironskin making it less usefull,has been disproved by tests from forumers like Dahmer & TTP.Defense cut applies on the base defense or total defense (same thing).I too believed otherwise.

    Wielding a 25% defense cut weapon or in effect 12.5% in pvp is like having more than 80% to base ar(like from fana on beast)eventhough you get more ar, a weapon like botd/fury/cleaver/grief would manage more hits by virtue of defense cut.

    Rik
     
  6. Majiin

    Majiin IncGamers Member

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    then whats the point of using beast/duress?, wouldnt fury/fortitude be better? (more life, AR, damage and defende :eek:)
     
  7. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    Sure is.Linky.

    Rik
     
  8. combatman

    combatman IncGamers Member

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    I remembered now that the post i was refering was about war cry skil and not an eth rune:) I guesss it was a loooong time ago.
     
  9. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    I reckon the defense cut from battle cry works the same way since in essence both are same mods statistically,but cant say for sure unless tests are done.

    Rik
     
  10. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    I'm pretty sure you can't have negative defence, so the defence of your opponent was set to zero, which is pretty much the same thing for all practical purposes.
     
  11. jordy666

    jordy666 IncGamers Member

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    u can

    my mouse is over it, but i had -296 def

    -jordy :king:
     
  12. combatman

    combatman IncGamers Member

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    chimara; that was 100% sure a long time ago in 1.09. I think it is possible now if u duel shadow asa casting cloak of shadows and warcy barb at he same time ,and lets say u are a necromancer with 1k def.
     
  13. Lunatic

    Lunatic IncGamers Member

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    I know for a fact that Inner sight can drop your defense below zero. Ofcourse this is still the same as zero defense when it comes to chance to hit. But that's the only skill that can drop defense into the negatives.
     
  14. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    Yeah I also meant for 1.09...can't=couldn't. Nice screenshot Jordy...that really cleared things up:) Maybe move the mouse cursor next time
     
  15. Majiin

    Majiin IncGamers Member

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    interesting link, if my calculations are right, fury/enigma (since i'm not on ladder) is still better than beast/duress, by a "big" difference, around 60-70 damage assuming you have 240-260 str :rolleyes:
     
  16. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    I dont think so.If you are talking BVC,then it has been proven time & again that botd/beast or grief/beast is the best option in most duels,fury can be used in place of beast in es sorcs duels.But over all in BVC, beast is the best offhand weapon.

    Enigma cant compare to fort/duress if you are talking damage or defense.Duress gives some ed% & 33% ow,fort gives 300% ed.

    Rik
     
  17. JanusJones

    JanusJones IncGamers Member

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    Question folks:

    Does this make maxed Battle Cry a nasty PvP skill? Anybody tested this?
     
  18. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    Rik, battle cry defense works as straight subtraction, which is why it sucks for pvp. If you had a 1000 defense barb with 500% enhanced defense from shout/ironskin, he'd be sitting at 6000 defense. You battle cry him for -50%, but instead of going to 3000 defense, he'd go to 5750 (500% ed - 25% ed = 475% ed).

    Works well on monsters though, since they generally don't have Enhanced Defense, but rather a fixed total.

    -Hal
     
  19. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    hmm..that clarifies it.Since it was originally thought that -% target defense on weapons works on enhanced defense% too & then subesequently proven wrong I was under the impression that being the same mod the defense cut from battly cry ought to work on final defense as well.But since you said it,that mustnt be the case.

    Rik
     
  20. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    Ah, well, this is the information we've been running with since 1.10 was released, when someone found that to be the explanation for why it did jack against players in pvp. I havn't seen it proven wrong thus far, but of course anything can be. :)

    -Hal
     

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