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How does Grief work?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by TheRebel22, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. TheRebel22

    TheRebel22 Diabloii.Net Member

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    How does Grief work?

    I'm probably going to be using a Grief PB soon, and I still have no idea where this 'massive pvm damage' comes from.

    35% Chance To Cast Level 15 Venom On Striking
    +30-40% Increased Attack Speed (varies)
    Damage +340-400 (varies)
    Ignore Target's Defense
    -25% Target Defense
    +(1.875 per character level) 1.875-185.625% Damage To Demons (Based on Character Level)
    Adds 5-30 Fire Damage
    -20-25% To Enemy Poison Resistance (varies)
    20% Deadly Strike
    Prevent Monster Heal
    +2 To Mana After Each Kill
    +10-15 Life After Each Kill (varies)

    I see the +340-400dmg, the ignore target defense (if it ignores defense, why does it matter that it's -25% defense?), and the +dmg to demons, along with the deadly strike.. but all that doesn't seem too intimidating in a phase blade... Is the damage from the Venom and -epr? How does Venom work? I've never played an assassin... does it have to 'charge up' or what? Please xplain!

    Thanks
     
  2. Corale

    Corale Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    -25% defense works on bosses, but ignore target defense doesn't.

    Also that 340-400 damage is applied before things like %ED from other equipment and skills if I understand correctly, putting Grief at the very top of all one handers when it comes to damage in most cases.
     
  3. stephan

    stephan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    I'm not sure why you think +340-400 doesn't sound impressive while most unique and set 2 handers do less...

    For comparison: an average eth oath Feral Axe does 415 damage. Now imagine being able to wear two of those.
     
  4. TheRebel22

    TheRebel22 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    Well, I was thinking it added total damage, like at the end, with all the +ed% and stuff, but as corale clarified, I see what you're saying now.

    I got this perception because I see people's stats when using Grief, and their on screen damage is around 1k. It just didn't seem like that much too me.

    and this : http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Grief added to that, I thought that if it added on weapon damage, you'd see it, ON the weapon.

    How much does the Venom add and how does that skill work on Grief?



     
  5. Serdash

    Serdash Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    Put the runeword in a weapon.

    Put the weapon in your characters weapon slot.

    Use normal attack or a character skill that uses a weapon that the Grief is in.

    Click the appropriate mouse button.
     
  6. Fabian

    Fabian Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    As others are saying, the +dmg is basically added to the base damage of the weapon, so a perfect Grief Phase Blade would have a a base damage of 431-436 or whatever it is, too lazy to look it up. Then, you get a very healthy bonus from the +%ED to Demons and other juicy mods (I'm assuming you're talking mostly Travincal running here as I've seen you mention it in other threads).

    As for Venom, it doesn't trigger when Whirlwinding, which again I'm assuming is what you're talking about. It does occasionally trigger when you sort of just hit a monster instead of doing an actual Whirl, but I don't think it makes you kill that much faster. I don't have any actual numbers for how much damage Venom does in those instances.

    And yes, the LCS shows Grief damage to be quite low, but that's because the LCS can't be trusted. Grief is the best melee weapon in the game.
     
  7. Naab

    Naab Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    You forgot:
    Things die.



     
  8. channimal

    channimal Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    would this be good for an Act5 merc?
     
  9. TheRebel22

    TheRebel22 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    Wow, if you're super-wealthy I suppose.



     
  10. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    It would work well, but since barb mercs can't dual wield, I'd rather put a heavy two hander on him. Oath in a 2-hander will do much more damage than Grief, and Death will do much more though it will be slower.


     
  11. Fabian

    Fabian Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    "Oath in a 2-hander will do much more damage than Grief"

    Is this really true? Intuitively I wouldn't have thought so, but I haven't run any numbers or anything.
     
  12. Greebo

    Greebo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    This applies to Bosses AND Superuniques. I mention this since 3 of 11 Council Memebers in Trav are Superuniques.

    -------

    @Rebel
    The damage from Grief is not displayed correctly in-game. You need to use the damage calculator at the german D2 site (or some other good one) to find 'true' in-game damage.

    --Greebo


     
  13. stephan

    stephan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    Like I said in my previous post an average Oath Feral Axe does 400+. If you get a weapon with a higher base damage and a better roll you could get 600+ (1.1x base weapon). I guess if you count the 20% DS the difference wouldn't be that large, but from a cost/effectiveness point of view I'd just take the two-handed Oath. :)

    It works at half effectiveness though.



     
  14. Greebo

    Greebo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    That is new to me. So how does it work, exactly?

    When 'Grief' is checked for CtH a Superunique, which of the following is true:
    (1) ITD (-50%) and -25% TDef combine for total of -75% to enemy defense
    (2) ITD applies first (-50%) and then -25% for the total change of -62.5%
    (3) -25% Def applies first and then ITD, resulting, again, in -62.5% change in enemy defense

    Or have I misunderstood completely and the ITD doesn't work at all, but -25% changes into -12.5%? Would that apply same to bosses and superuniques?

    --Greebo


     
  15. stephan

    stephan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    Sorry if I was unclear. ITD doesn't work at all, -%ED is halved.
     
  16. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    I'd forgotten about the DS on Grief.

    This is from a low roll Oath in a 1.07 BB:

    Two Hand Damage: 327 - 706

    for an average of 516 damage. On average (iirc), 20% DS adds 20% to your overall damage, so a phase blade's 431-435 becomes 517-522 for an average of 519. So Grief barely edges out a low roll Oath (in a good base).

    I don't have a good roll 2-hand oath to look at. So, I guess "much more" might not be true.

    I do think that Death will do much much more, more base damage and more DS and more CB.

    ITD doesn't work at all against bosses and uniques. The -25% enemy defense on grief will function as -12.5% (though I'm not sure if that's rounded down to -12%).


     
  17. Greebo

    Greebo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    Not to beat a dead horse over the head, but both of those facts apply to both bosses and Superuniques, correct?

    I assume by Uniques you mean Superuniques, correct?

    Uniques = the gold name ones with randomly selected names, leaders of bosspacks
    Superuniques = Bloodraven and so on

    As far as I know -%ED works against normal standard non-super just-uniques at full efficiency, is that right?

    --Greebo


     
  18. onderduiker

    onderduiker Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    Ignores Target Defence only applies to normal monsters and minions, it does not apply to Champion, Unique, Super Unique and boss monsters.

    -% Target Defence from items is 50% effective against Super Unique and boss monsters, but it's still 100% effective against random Champion and Unique monsters.

    -% Enhanced Defence from the skills Battle Cry and Conviction suffers no penalties against any target, although that of Cloak of Shadows does not apply to boss monsters, and any +% Enhanced Defence (Madawc's Shout or Baal's Minion bloodlust) needs to be taken into account (the Stone Skin Unique bonus doubles base defence before any +% ED is applied).

    Blood Raven is a boss, not a Super Unique (Cloak of Shadows does not apply its -% ED).


     
  19. TheRebel22

    TheRebel22 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: How does Grief work?

    Oh. My. God. Grief absolutely owns. I got a decent roll I suppose, +366 damage. Where can I get a calculator for my real damage? I'm real interested in seeing that. I did put the +40% damage jewel in the helm because of the fact that so much of the damage is on weapon, I felt 40% would add enough to warrant the use of the socket. I like using my SS as well.

    I only have 2.6k life now : ( has me kind of worried, but I have 50% DR and 10kdefense.

    I'm fully equipped now baby.. Arreats 40%ED, Grief, SS (gonna Um it), LoH, SoE (7/15%), Gore Riders. I took the upp'd duriels shell off my merc to use for now.

    Netted an Ist my first run.
     
  20. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack Diabloii.Net Member

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