How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

[lone_wolf]

How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

So far we have been debating the active skills but we have lacked a debate about the passive skills so lets start one. :yes:

I for one hope they wont just stick it into a seperate system and then call it a day i want them to do something with passive skills that makes it feel more important.

Mayby have a feat like system where you can choose a new one each 4 levels.

that would mean we would have 15 "feats" to choose from at end game.

With a large enough pool of different "feats" to choose from this could also ensure that player characters become more unique and not as bland and boring as in diablo 2.

So what is the through on this subject form the rest of you forumites?

 

[Arbedark]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

Feats would be a good idea, however I can see some problems with coming up with enough for each character to make a lot of variety if each character can have 15 feats. Unless some are tiered, like Axe Mastery I, Axe Mastery II, Axe Mastery III etc...

Would these feats be like this or would they be more dramatic in the way they change the character?

 

[TheMythe]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

Well, the stats are automated on lvl up. The active skills can be chosen on lvl up. I agree with you. A featlist is a viable idea for the passive skills. It leaves many variety open in builds which will enhance the gameplay replayability buildwise.
This way you are free to choose and can even f*ck up your builds even IF you have chosen to perfect active skill combo, because you haven't supported them with the right passive skills.

I can only think of one other way but Blizzard won't ever do that and that is autmated passive skills on lvl up...

Do other ways even exist?
Maybe through NPC(trainers, merchants, mercaneries, artisan, casted out foes, neardeath endbosses, family trades), sidequests, achievements, peforming sexual favors for Cain, bribing/threatening/kidnapping Blizzard employees?

 

[TheMythe]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

Feats would be a good idea, however I can see some problems with coming up with enough for each character to make a lot of variety if each character can have 15 feats. Unless some are tiered, like Axe Mastery I, Axe Mastery II, Axe Mastery III etc...

Would these feats be like this or would they be more dramatic in the way they change the character?

I assume/hope Blizzard will at least think up original names for each passive skill and not stack 'em up. Also that they add to a character and makes every passive skill him/her a bit more hero/heroin-like.

 

[Arbedark]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

I assume/hope Blizzard will at least think up original names for each passive skill and not stack 'em up. Also that they add to a character and makes every passive skill him/her a bit more hero/heroin-like.

Well as I stated earlier, if they implement feats such as mentioned without a stacking system (as in we can have 15 stand alone 1 point feats), then there will be a sever lack of diversity among them.

Can you seriously come up with 30-45 unique feats for each class without there being repetition or absolute "no brainers"?

 

[TheMythe]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

Well as I stated earlier, if they implement feats such as mentioned without a stacking system (as in we can have 15 stand alone 1 point feats), then there will be a sever lack of diversity among them.

Can you seriously come up with 30-45 unique feats for each class without there being repetition or absolute "no brainers"?

There can be follow-ups of course as improved versions of its predecessor. But please (Blizzard) give them original names. Not just armor I, armor II, armor III, etc.

To answer your last question..yes I can. Been playing NWN for years so naming feats that do different things (good/bad) is easy.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

a feat system would work but a seperate passive tree would also be good. i rather the passive tree if i get a point per level just cause i like having more to do on level up. of course every 4th level would feel that much better under this feat system but would require better level of balance so you dont start level 40 super strong and level 43 you are having a real hard time killing things. i guess i am still not sold on passives not being apart of the main skill tree yet, for all we know each skill could be capped at level 5 or 7 or something and are all in the main tree

 

[Arbedark]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

There can be follow-ups of course as improved versions of its predecessor. But please (Blizzard) give them original names. Not just armor I, armor II, armor III, etc.

To answer your last question..yes I can. Been playing NWN for years so naming feats that do different things (good/bad) is easy.

NWN has, what, 45 feats total. Not 45 for EACH CLASS.

Go on, come up with 45 feats (uniqe ones) for each class, since you seem to think it will be so easy.

 

[Doppel]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

So far we have been debating the active skills but we have lacked a debate about the passive skills so lets start one. :yes:

I for one hope they wont just stick it into a seperate system and then call it a day i want them to do something with passive skills that makes it feel more important.

Mayby have a feat like system where you can choose a new one each 4 levels.

that would mean we would have 15 "feats" to choose from at end game.

With a large enough pool of different "feats" to choose from this could also ensure that player characters become more unique and not as bland and boring as in diablo 2.

So what is the through on this subject form the rest of you forumites?

Played Fallout have we?

 

[psyadam]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

What is a feat?

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

What is a feat?

they became famous in the NWN games and now several games use them. short answer is they are passive buffs however thats not fully true. some feats are active skills still. but yeah easiest answer is they are skills outside of your skill tree that are usually passive.

 

[lone_wolf]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

Played Fallout have we?

Played DnD since 2.0 but mostly played 3.0 and 3.5 trying to find a group to play 4 edition. but yeah i have played fallout 1, 2, tactics and fallout 3 as well as others like the nwn games.

@Arbedark cant be bothered to hunt down every feat in my core DnD 4 edition books but here you can see for yourself how it can look

http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/database.aspx

there are 20 feats per page and 132 pages so 2640 feats :whistling:

@psyadam

feat 1 (ft)
n.
1. A notable act or deed, especially an act of courage; an exploit.
2. An act of skill, endurance, imagination, or strength; an achievement.
3. Obsolete A specialized skill; a knack.
[Middle English fet, from Anglo-Norman, from Latin factum, from neuter past participle of facere, to make, do; see dh- in Indo-European roots.]
Synonyms: feat1, achievement, exploit, masterstroke
These nouns denote an extraordinary deed or action: feats of bravery; achievements of diplomacy; military exploits; a masterstroke of entrepreneurship.

more often it is seen as a special skill that someone has example:

it was a feat of strength when the mother lifted the car so her trapped child could get away from it.

 

[Arbedark]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

From that website you linked to:

Bola Expert Dragon Magazine 368
Bola Novice Dragon Magazine 368
Bola Specialist Dragon Magazine 368
Bola Training Dragon Magazine 368
Net Expert Dragon Magazine 368
Net Novice Dragon Magazine 368
Net Specialist Dragon Magazine 368
Net Training Dragon Magazine 368
Whip Expert Dragon Magazine 368
Whip Novice Dragon Magazine 368
Whip Specialist Dragon Magazine 368
Whip Training Dragon Magazine 368

Loads of diversity there...

The difficulty comes in making feats different enough to actually warrant their inclusion in the game, rather than having the majority of the feats for the Wizard that are basically Level 1 Arcane Damage +. Level 2 Arcane Damage +.....Level 3 Cold Damage +, Level 4 Cold Damage +....Level x Lightning Damage +....

And similar for the Barbarian but for different weapons (Which D2 didn't manage to avoid unfortunately).

 

[sicilian]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

I kind of like the feats idea, but think it would be more like passive stat boosts than one point feats. Would like to see one at least every other level, giving a total of 30 passive points by games' end. Then have 15 possible choices per class, with each one going to a rank of 5 maximum. So you can spread out to 2 points in each one, or max out 6 of 15.

As for variety, I think it would be tough to not overlap. I think there would have to be ones that are universal for every class:

Increased Health
Increased Crit chance
Increased move speed
Increased armor
Increased gold find maybe (depends on how balanced gold find needs to be)

Then each class will have one passive that helps with resources:
Barb: increases fury gains or decreases fury drain
Wiz: decreases AP cost or increases regen
WD: same as wiz but with mana
Monk and 5th TBD

Then you only need 9 more class specific that could be tailored to what types of skills they use. For example, one wizard passive could increase damage from all ice/storm related spells. One could increase from any Arcane spells, etc. It's a further way to compliment the active skills you choose.

 

[cacophony]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

The fate of passives have been bugging me for awhile. Are they the new "manual stat points?" Is it item based, finding gems or charms you pop into your talisman? Does your active skill pool determine your passives pool, or is it completely open? I really have no clue how they are going to work, other than they are handled differently than your active skills.

 

[lone_wolf]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

From that website you linked to:



Loads of diversity there...

The difficulty comes in making feats different enough to actually warrant their inclusion in the game, rather than having the majority of the feats for the Wizard that are basically Level 1 Arcane Damage +. Level 2 Arcane Damage +.....Level 3 Cold Damage +, Level 4 Cold Damage +....Level x Lightning Damage +....

And similar for the Barbarian but for different weapons (Which D2 didn't manage to avoid unfortunately).

if you looked at all 2640 of them you would find that there are enough to make more then 15 unique feats per character class in diablo 3:thumbup:

 

[Arbedark]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

if you looked at all 2640 of them you would find that there are enough to make more then 15 unique feats per character class in diablo 3:thumbup:

And if I bought enough lottery tickets I'd win the lottery. :thumbup:

You're still avoiding actually addressing my point that making enough feats for each class (in order to actually have variety when choosing feats), yet having little overlap between the feats and making sure that there are few to no "no-brainer" feats is going to be very difficult.

You're looking at 200+ distinctly different feats for D3 to actually give variety. And more to be added for expansion classes.

 

[lone_wolf]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

not avoiding it, i could show you more then 15 feat that is unique for each class there is in dnd 4 edition out of those 2640.

Besides i never said it would be easy just that it can be done.

when i got more time during the weekend i could actually post +15 feats for every class in the core books to show you what i mean but right now i dont have the time.

 

[theeliminator]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

I think that a feat system would overlap to much with what runestones are meant to do.


Take the Cleave and Great Cleave feats from D&D, it would seem to me that Striking rune and Multi Strike runes would do the same thing to the Cleave skill in Diablo 3.

For those that don't know, The Cleave feat in D&D gave you an extra attack after killing a target, to attack another target within 5 feet, but it could only be used once per turn. Great Cleave on the other hand did the same thing as Cleave only that you could keep going to the next target if you kept killing targets in one hit.

So in Diablo 3 the Striking runestone my let your Cleave attack an extra target as long as one of the original targets died. Then Multi Strike could be, get to attack an extra target for each target that dies in the Cleave attack.

 

[Ninyu]

Re: How do you think the passive skills will be handled?

I don't think the passive skills are going to affect your active skills like that. The passive skills will be more like an extra 10% to your armor rating, health regen, or lower equip requirements. I think Bashiok even mentioned that passive skills and active skills are separate.