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How do you MF?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by baqarah, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. baqarah

    baqarah IncGamers Member

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    How do you MF?

    Hi all.
    I am relatively new to this forum. I was lurking for a few years now and I decided to join the community in more active way. Also, with 1.13, opportunity to accually see (not only dream about) some hrs arised, so I decided to play my beloved diablo2 a little more.
    I've got some pretty decent gear right now, but I lack of the most tc87 stuff. Ive never found Tal Rasha's armor, my IK Armor got lost somewhere. I pray for my first Windforce. Ive found 2 Zods (my FIRST and ONLY hrs… yeah seriously, few Ohm's and Lo's would be so much more usefull for me right now), but I don’t have base items (I decided to make ebotd gpa and ebotd ba).

    So I wondered. How do you mf?

    I myself have two sorcs that I love to mf with. One Blizzard sorc for AT, Mausoleum and Pindle. Shes got sth like ~500 mf and can kill at reasonable speed at /p3. One lightning sorc was made for countess runs, but now I use her for LK runs. Ive also got frenzybarb who kills Travi pretty good at /p3. Im just doing Javazon to kill cows and find those eth base items. I developed my "style" of running those areas, but I always wondered whether is it effective, so I have few questions for you guys:

    1. What kind of maps you run? Do you reroll maps to have them as small as possible? Does the size matter? How many boss packs can a map spawn? Is it different for larger and smaller maps?

    2. My current AT map has some "sweet spots" in which boss packs always spawns (sparkling chest and few more spots). There are some spots where packs usually spawn and some spots where packs spawn, but only sometimes. I usually go for the first two types of spots. Then S/E and rerun the area. Is it effective? Do you clear the whole area or do you leave non-minion alive?

    3. What /px setting do you mf at? Is it better to have like ~300 mf and kill at lets say /p5 or ~500 at /p1. I know that bosses' drop rates are not affected by the /px setting, but I maybe its worth killing minions at higher setting?

    4. What is the best way to get high lvl base items? Cows or just tc87 areas? What player setting? How many mf? 0? Or more?

    5. How many hours/runs of LK running will get me a hr? I know its random, but you guys probably have done like thousands of runs so you can tell the average number.

    6. What kind of chars do you use for mfing? I know you can mf with every character, but what character is best suited for the most common areas?

    7. Is it effective to run CS and wsk/baalrun? It is so much safer to run pits/mausoleum/at than those areas. In CS are a lot of those "ghosts" so the runes probably drop more frequent.

    8. Whats the best Pit runner? Ive tried running with hybrid (meteorb, or should I say fb-orb) sorc, but its so much slower than running AT with blizzard sorc. I don’t have Infinity yet, so I can't break immunities. Ive also tried to do pit runs with some melee builds (zealpala, different barb builds) but I dont think a melee build can carry so much mf gear a sorc or skelenecro can. And I think necro is too slow to be considered a good mfer. Am I right, or are there some crazy, effective builds made specially for the pit? I can think of few builds that can be fun (death sentry kick assa, some kind of javazon hybrid, bone necro, strafezon), but I dont see how they can be more effective than standard cheesy sorc build.

    9. And the last but least how do you run the pit? Are you killing everything on your way to lvl2, or just boss packs? Is it effective to run lvl at /p8 or just chest cheese? I am lazy and don’t like to type that much between the runs ;).


    I am aware that some (all?) of these questions can be found via the search button, but I want to know how do YOU, SPF users, do stuff. Its so much different for single player than multi player.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  2. Corale

    Corale IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Just to get this started, here's what I do:

    Pindle
    at p5 with my 89 meteorb to level her.
    at p1 with my 92 blizz sorc for speed. She's around 20-23 seconds per run.

    AT
    at p5 with blizz sorc to level her and find goodies. It's not super fast but fun.

    Pits
    at p1 with meteorb for speed.

    Meph/Andariel
    at p1 with blizz and meteorb respectively because iirc higher player settings has very low yield on MF here.

    Countess
    at p1 because it gives the highest chance of good rune drops.

    I'm not running LK/Trav/WSK. Good luck :)
     
  3. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Many of these answers depend a lot on what you want to accomplish, exactly. I'll include some thoughts, anyway.

    1. For Area 85 running (AT, Pits), I want a map that reaches as many boss packs in as few teleports as possible. This could mean that the map is "small", but also stuff like having the entrance close to the waypoint, not having a map where you have to backtrack, having a map where boss packs tend to spawn in groups, etc. I don't have exact numbers, but I think 8 boss packs is around the maximum for these areas.

    2. To figure this out mathematically, you'd have to do a number of runs where you visit all these spots, keep track on how many boss packs you encounter, and look at your average run time for these runs. Then do the same, but only visit the sweet spots. The most effective method will be the one where you see the most boss packs per second. Tough to give a general answer, but I'd say avoiding the spots where packs rarely spawn probably often is good.

    3. This depends a lot on what your primary goal is. If it's TC87's from area running, p1 is almost certainly the most effective, as most of those will come from the bosses, whose drop rates are unaffected by player setting. The amount of MF you're carrying is not as important as your run speed, generally speaking. Once you have ~300 MF, it's nice to be able to add more, but if that adds a lot of time to your average run time, it's almost certainly not worth it. Another issue is finding runes during area runs, which is much easier at higher player settings. A higher chance of finding runes might be worth lowering your efficiency in finding TC87's, perhaps. Running efficiently at higher player settings get easier as your item wealth increases, too.

    4. Trading is easiest. If you want them self found, running Cows is the most popular method, and you don't want too much MF, as you're looking for white/grey items to drop, not blue/yellow ones. Here, a higher player setting is good if you can handle it. Fast, easy, p1 runs are probably better than really slow and dangerous p7 runs.

    5. This will vary hugely, as LK running is a very high variance pursuit, but with the patterns currently known on p7, you will have a Vex or higher drop once every 390 runs on average, from the 6 special chests.

    6. I have a Whirlwind Barb for running Travincal (another hotspot for high runes, along with LK and Cows). I have another Whirlwind Barb for running Pindle. I have a lightsorc I've been running the Countess with, as well as being a good Cow runner and all-around superstar who can MF basically any area (Pits, Chaos Sanctuary, Baal, etc). I have a blizzsorc which is great for Mephisto and AT. I have a Firesorc which can pack lots of MF and still kill quickly in some areas (Mausoleum is a lvl85 area with no fire immunes I believe), but I haven't been using her very much. She's the best Andariel runner too, but that's not a very popular target for me. I have a lightning amazon which is fantastic for Cow runs (no need for MF when running Cows, as you're mostly after runes there). Finally, I have a Hammerdin which is great for Chaos Sanctuary. Most of the above characters are built/equipped specifically for being as efficient as possible for their respective run targets, as I enjoy the optimization aspect of magic finding a lot.

    7. Both CS and WSK are reasonably popular areas to run, although like you say, they're pretty challenging for many characters. Variety can be fun though; after you've killed Pindle 8 billion times and run AT for three years, you might be looking for a new challenge :)

    8. With ideal equipment (Enigma, Death's Web, etc), a Poison Nova/Corpse Explosion Necromancer is among the very best, if not the best. There's a few people who have really efficient Necros like that running the pits, whose Pat threads you can probably search for to check out (zerth, NagisaFurukawa, and myself come to mind). If you have Infinity, a light sorc is also very good (which is true for basically any area, Infinity lightsorcs are crazy strong). With less than ideal equipment, I would expect a Full Tal's Meteorb or perhaps another dual tree sorc would be decent at it, but comparing efficiency to a Blizzsorc in AT is not going to look good, like you say. Anything non-sorc, non-Enigma is inefficient for area running, in my opinion. That doesn't mean it can't be fun of course, so again, it depends on what your goals are.

    9. With my poison necro, I like to do two different things, depending on what I feel like. The first, which imo is the best for finding TC87s, is to load up on as much MF as possible, run on p1 and only killing posspacks. The other method, when I feel like having a better shot at finding runes, is to do semi full clears on p7 (p7 and p8 have the same drops, so going to p8 will just make monsters unnecessarily strong), while replacing some of my MF gear with good stuff (Nagelrings become Stone of Jordans, the 7% MF Small Charms become 7 skillers, stuff like that). Again, depends on your goal, but if you want to find TC87s as efficiently as possible, the answer is almost always going to be to kill as many boss packs/second over a long period of time.

    Hope my thoughts help, I'm sure others will have different perspectives though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  4. Twoflower

    Twoflower Banned

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    Re: How do you MF?

    I have 3 chars that are playble in hell.

    My WW barb runs travi for runes. No luck so far.

    My Meteorb sorc runs Meph. I have a nice map where she takes arount 10 teleports up to meph.

    My summoner necro runs the AT and maybe Baal when he gets some more decent gear.

    edit : i run all on /p1 except meph with my sorc, which i run on /p3. Hope i am doing this right ^^
     
  5. JKS

    JKS IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Basically the reason I returned to Diablo is the increased drop rate in 1.13 (plus respec as an added bonus).
    In 1.10 I had almost full grail but finding the right runes was just plain impossible without trading.
    In 1.13 with rwm mod you have at least as much reason to hunt for runes as you do for uniques. Actually I would rather hunt for runes and find uniques as a by-product of rune hunting. So from my point of view /p7 is the ideal setting.
    With the above in mind, you should do runs like Travincal and Cow for the runes, not LK, because you want to have the uniques as a by product.
    For Travincal if you have at least average equip I would advise a barb to get the benefit of hork. If your barb is not strong enough, run with whatever capable char you have until you get 2 Lo and make dual grief for the barb (it should take a week worth of playing).
    For the cows I would say javazon, but YMMV.
    Even though I got cham in the pit, such areas as pit, pindle, AT and such are not as attractive as before. I do CS with my Paladin at /p7 - he can handle it fast, easy, no chance of dying, good experience and both rune and unique drops, and my equip is still below average. In a couple of months I will simply own the CS.
     
  6. raevynn

    raevynn IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?


    Could you translate that for someone who is not savvy about ALL abbreviations? ;) To do Pindle runs, do you never do the Nihlatak quest?


     
  7. JKS

    JKS IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    AT stands for Ancient tunnels in act 3
    Pits is the underground level in tamoe highland in act 1
    LK is lower kurast
    Trav is travincal
    WSK is the worldstone keep
    You can kill Nihlatlak as many times as you wish. Just do not take the WP and do not talk to Anya (I don't know which of the two closes the portal, so to be on the safe side I do not do both)
     
  8. raevynn

    raevynn IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Thanks! I'll keep that in mind once my first char reaches Act 5 in Hell (currently working on Act 3)... :)
     
  9. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Ancient Tunnels is in Lost City in Act 2.

    To keep the portal to Pindle open, either don't kill Nihlathak, or don't grab the Halls of Pain waypoint. Doing both will close the portal.
     
  10. hardwaredin

    hardwaredin IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    I have a 91 hammerdin that can pretty much clear everything so with him i do:

    WSK /p8
    Meph /p8
    Pits /p8
    Baal /p5 (/p1 for 2nd wave)

    94 Blizz Sorc:
    AT /p8
    LK /p8
    Pindle /p8

    89 WW Barb:
    Trav /p6

    I might try it at lower settings for speed and see if the drops are any better.
     
  11. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    As I play untwinked and single-pass, all my characters do 'MF while questing', to try to improve their gear until the game gets hard in late NM and Hell.

    As I also play HC, there is an interesting balance of 'MF gear vs. survival gear' going on for most of my characters.



     
  12. Serdash

    Serdash IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Me? I find some lowly sucker willing to buddy up with me. Then I talk to them about MFing, ask about their drops.

    Then? That's when the real magic starts.

    Begging is a form of art. One in which the secrets should not be revealed so easily.

    (No seriously. Pindle = 20 second runs = gg)
     
  13. Shagsbeard

    Shagsbeard IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    I just play the game as my whim takes me... if you play enough, everything will drop eventually. If you enjoy playing, you'll keep at it until eventually becomes actuality. If you turn it into work, you'll quit playing as soon as you realize you're working rather than playing.

    So I guess I don't MF... though some of my characters have higher MF% than others.
     
  14. potter

    potter IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Blizz sorc:
    pindle
    AT
    meph

    Fire sorc:
    Andariel (nm/hell)
    Mausoleum (rarely)

    Blova sorc:
    Baal

    Avenger Paladin:
    Maggots Lair (Probably the only character I'd run this place with)

    Fishymancer:
    WSK

    Novamancer:
    Pits

    Furyzon:
    Cows

    Any sorc:
    LK

    (Upcoming) Lit sorc:
    Countess

    (Upcoming) Strafer:
    RoF/CS

    What do i run the most?
    Pindle
    >_>
     
  15. RobbyD

    RobbyD IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    I play 1.09, and here is how I do it (keep in mind one of my ultimate goals before finishing 1.09 is to get a Vex rune drop from Countess)... each character sticks to the list until inventory is full - then I go to another character instead of spending the time to mule.

    Frenzy Barb: >300MF on main weapons, >500MF on Dual Ali Baba switch (Skullder's + Stealskull + War Travs + Nagel)

    Run Countess P1
    Run Mephy and Baal on P3
    Run Pindle and Cold Caves (Chrystalline Passage, Glacial Trail, Ancient's Way) on P5


    MeteOrb Sorc ~125MF (Occy + Shako)

    Run Countess P1
    Run Cows, Mephy, Snapchip Shatter, Glacial Trail P8


    BurizaZon >300MF (Tal's 3-piece)

    Run Countess P1
    Run Mephy, Baal P3
    Run Cold Caves P3 or P5


    Schaeferdin ~135MF (Skullder's + War Travs)

    Run Countess P1
    Run LK chests P8
    Run Cold Caves P8
     
  16. Corale

    Corale IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Sorry man :)

    You should listen to Shagsbeard if you want my 2 cents. Run the fun stuff, that's what I do as well. The only map I have opted for is a quick meph map, the rest is just whatever I did hell with basically, and if it gets boring I reroll the maps. Then just play what you feel like, but sure, keep to the areas that do have chances of getting you what you want.


     
  17. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Come on! No one responded to this in a suggestive manner yet???


    I definitely re-roll maps for speed. It's more important the shorter the run. Basically you should shoot for

    Pindle: 20-30 seconds (I recommend Fabian's thread if you want to be impressed by something non-standard)

    Meph: 30 seconds

    LK: below 30 seconds; note that there are 2 factors to consider (a) the time it takes to make a full circle of teleports to get back to the WP, (b) the probability of monsters spawning inside the huts; some maps crawl with monsters in the wrong places, others are almost always empty

    AT: around 45-50 seconds /p1 Sorc killing only bosses (~5 packs / run, on average)

    Pits: around 1:15-1:20 seconds /p7 Poisonmancer

    Cows: below 5 minutes on /p7 (LF-zon)

    Chaos S: not sure

    I only kill in the spots where there are bosspacks at least 80% of the time

    That's up to your playstyle, really. I've read the "I run it at /p7 because it doesn't slow me down" argument quite a few times. I don't buy it for a second.

    The devil is in the details here. Measure your time for 100 runs on each player setting. Then do the math. (By each player setting I mean 1, 3, 5 and 7)

    Another factor is that, in the end, it only matters which is more fun for you. The more runs you do, the more you'll find. The more you enjoy certain player setting, the more runs you'll do.

    Honestly, the best way is probably racking them in 1.07 if you're serious about it.

    See here.

    Depending on what you call HR, it varies. The average number of Gul+ in 10,000 runs on /p7 will be

    10000 * 6 * 41 / 2^16 = 37.5

    1000 = number of runs
    6 = number of chests
    41 = number of (known!) drop combinations containing Gul or higher
    2^16 = 65536 = the total number of possible drops

    With 'Enigma' much more common now the answer to this question has somewhat changed, however see here.

    I don't know what are "ghosts" in CS. In general you'll eventually get bored with an area. That's why people try to mix & match. Since CS used to be very difficult to run efficiently, and nowadays is much more attainable due to IM curse having been removed, people like to run it. Rune availability is part of it, the fact it's 'new' is another thing.

    Again, read the thread I linked to above.

    Well, definitely not /p8. If anything /p7 (the drops are the same).

    And pits are a little different than AT. There's way more non-boss monsters and a build like Tele-Poisonmancer can tear through all that spawns there in a matter of seconds. Which is why it is in general more beneficial to run higher player settings in the Pits than in other places.

    -----

    Hope some of that helps
    --Greebo


     
  18. baqarah

    baqarah IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    Thanks all of you for the replies. That was very helpful and informative.

    The idea of running the pit with poisonmancer never came to me, but thats probably because I just HATE everything that deals poison. Waiting sth to die and not being able to speed up the process is ... just... so ... annoying!! And I know that with nova its not that long, but still.
    Seriously though, Im gonna try it out.

    I dont like to downgrade and the lack of /players command probably will keep me away from 1.07, but the possibility of 1.07 ebotd polearm...

    About running for high lvl uniques - I always wondered whats more efficient - pit running or just Pindle running. Im going to compare my typical run time with drop rates and Ill do the math.


    I usually mf like some of you suggested - when questing and having fun with new characters. But I remember the times when me and my friend were mephing like madmen. The joy of seeing new thing pop out was incredible. "OMGOMGOMG Arachnid Mesh!!" or "Hell yeah! My first SoJ!!" But after some time (we did like 30 sec runs for few hours a day for few months, so go figure) Meph stopped delivering.

    And now recently one of the guys from Pindle pack dropped my first ever hr - Zod. All the excitment came rushing back. And I have to say - I WANT MORE!
     
  19. JKS

    JKS IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do you MF?

    In my experience Pindle with a very high MF barb is the fastest way to get tc87. (I am talking about 1000+ and I am pretty sure this is the right way to go).
    I have found way more than 100 tc87 from him (basically that was one of the reasons to quit back then - i couldn't imagine to run pits for months just to get 2 TC87, and runes back then weren't findable).
     

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