How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

TakeMyCrabs

Diabloii.Net Member
How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

...everyone's hard-earned tax-dollars going to save a drug-addicted hobo who begs for a living who OD'd? The second time? Third?
 

Nazdakka

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

However much of a screwup he is, the hobo is still a human being.
 

superdave

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

maybe we should just kill them...think of all the money we could save.
 
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

So I should be punished because he made poor choices and continues to do so? Everybody pack your bags, time to go to jail to help out those poor thieves and drug dealers.
 

th5418

Banned
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

So I should be punished because he made poor choices and continues to do so? Everybody pack your bags, time to go to jail to help out those poor thieves and drug dealers.
Wait, we're already doing that! :laugh:



 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

*Wonders how many posts before this thread turns into another libertarian wankfest*
 

superdave

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

i already got a little splooge in my eye.
 

Draconis

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

Given that the USA spends vastly more per capita on healthcare than any other developed nation, I'm not sure where everyone gets this idea that universal healthcare is some kind of bogeyman that's going to come and steal all your money. The US actually spends about the same amount per capita on public healthcare as, say, the UK, but with a vastly greater additional per capita private healthcare expenditure.

The most recent WHO stats put total US healthcare expenditure at 15.4% of GDP. The UK, by contrast, has total healthcare expenditure of 8.1% of GPD. Of the US total, 44.7% was government expenditure (about 6.9% of GDP), while the UK was 86.3% of that (about... 6.9% of GDP.)

Which as far as I can tell, means that the UK taxpayer is paying the UK government roughly the same amount for our universal healthcare system as the US taxpayer is paying the US government for their -non- universal healthcare system, and you then have enormous private sector health costs that more than double your actual total healthcare cost per capita.

(WHO Stats tool here)
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

There's no way to tell if those are necessary costs or electively incurred costs. I'd think people would be more likely to go to the doctor for smaller things when they know they won't have to wait a long time to actually see one.

This would also explain why almost every American I've seen has had better teeth than almost every Brit I've seen. And I've been to England.
 

disgruntled

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

*puts on the goggles*

The tooth situation in England is due to one word: inbreeding!

*grins with fabulous teeth that cost me at least 50k* :grin:
 

Draconis

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

There's no way to tell if those are necessary costs or electively incurred costs. I'd think people would be more likely to go to the doctor for smaller things when they know they won't have to wait a long time to actually see one.

This would also explain why almost every American I've seen has had better teeth than almost every Brit I've seen. And I've been to England.
Do you think people will be more likely to go to see their doctor if they have to wait, or if they have to pay? Besides which, people with the inclination to do so still can, and do, purchase private health insurance in the UK, and be treated in a private hospital. However, they are not required to do so in order to avoid being bankrupted by an unforeseen critical illness, as I understand is depressingly common in the US?

The state of the dental care system in the UK also has fairly specific national issues - feel free to compare the US figures (15.9% of GDP total expenditure, of which 6.9% public expenditure) with other comparable nations - France (10.9% total, 8.54% public), Germany (10.6% total, 8.15% total), Canada (9.8% total, 6.84% public). You can argue about the quality of care if you like (although demographically you still don't stack up well for things like infant mortality and life expectancy), but you spend a lot more for whatever benefit you perceive to exist.



 

plasmo

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

Sam Kinison on homelessness:
You give 'em the test. You sit 'em down and you go "Eh, you got any job skills, any career training? Any type of talent for anything that'll help you get a job?"
"No."
"Do you have any loved ones, do you have any friends, someone who'll love you enough to take you in, help you get back on your feet, help you fight back?"
"No."
"Is there anything left inside of you as a man that wants to get on his two feet and do something to change his world?"
"No."
*** BOOM *** I swear to God, the guy behind him is going to go, "Woah, woah, woah, My God, you're shooting the homeless!....Ok, I'm homeless, I don't have a job. I may have set my career goals a little too high. All right, all right. I was holding out for an executive position. That doesn't look like it's going to happen. Give me a couple of hours, I'll get a paper route, I'll get something. I'll get a job where I take the carts back to the grocery store, don't shoot me!"
The homeless will disapear, that'll be one less problem for America.



But, to be honest, the health care system in America simply doesn't work. If you're really poor you can get some services (but many still are unavailable) or if you're really rich you can afford them (and I mean really, really rich; even a couple of million won't get you too far if something catastrophic happens), but for the majority of people, health care is an absolute necessity.

If you can get it through your job or pay for it (which is pretty expensive on your own), that's great, but you still are using insurance of some kind, and there are millions whose employers don't offer it and who can't afford it personally. And you simply cannot afford to not have health insurance.

I know people who have had $50,000/day hospital bills for things that went wrong inside of their bodies for completely random reasons, not because they smoked or didn't wear a seatbelt or walked into traffic without looking both ways. Their liver or appendix or spleen just said, "Ah, hell with it. I feel like growing/stopping/exploding today."

I think the solution is more along the lines of lowering medical costs so everyone can personally afford it rather than giving everyone insurance. I'm not sure how to do that, though, so universal coverage is pretty much a necessity until we figure it out.
 

razen

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

rather than arguing this issue from whether someone deserve to live or die (as my fellow "lock-in-cubicle" not knowing what the hell the world is going on dii-ers...)

it's pretty much idiotic to argue that universal health coverage should be discouraged because some member of the society doesn't deserve it

o wait... it's not idiotic... i am only calling it idiotic because i can't think of any other more degrading words that doesn't involve me getting banned.

here is a better idea...

let's hand pick the people that should live. (why not? since stalinism is apparently pretty much worshipped by my fellow "god i am brain dead" dii-ers in page 1)
 
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

rather than arguing this issue from whether someone deserve to live or die (as my fellow "lock-in-cubicle" not knowing what the hell the world is going on dii-ers...)

it's pretty much idiotic to argue that universal health coverage should be discouraged because some member of the society doesn't deserve it

o wait... it's not idiotic... i am only calling it idiotic because i can't think of any other more degrading words that doesn't involve me getting banned.

here is a better idea...

let's hand pick the people that should live. (why not? since stalinism is apparently pretty much worshipped by my fellow "god i am brain dead" dii-ers in page 1)
I'm not saying we hand pick people, I'm saying we shouldn't allow for the massive abuse of my hard earned money.

If people need welfare of any kind I think they should be doing something for society to earn it. Make them collect garbage, clean the streets, clerical work somewhere, have them landscape parks, clean up the highways, etc. Unless they have an actual medical condition they cannot help they shouldn't be getting it for free. Being fat does not count(at least for 99.999999% of people)



 

LouisLeGros

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: How Do Universal Health Care Advocates Justify...

Universal health care removes the need for private employers to provide health care for their employees. This would help put them on an equal level compared to European businesses that do not have to provide health care for their employees.

There still would be a lot problems based around the pharmaceutical companies though.
 
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